Oil Leaks, I am tired of them Options

[DRPHIL914]

@sdoolin

did anyone every address your question about what appeared to be some
oil seepage from the base of the cylinder at the case? I too am about 5-6k miles from my rebuild 2 years ago and now have a very slow drip leak, and i can trace it to there as well, its not my push rod tubes . i am thinking about pulling the motor to check the torque on the head studs , did you do this? i have heard that we may see some stretch of the head bolts. BTW looks like new, very nice.

Phil

[sdoolin]

Nicely done!

Really like your "shop"!

Looks cozy and clean.

That top shelf against the wall looks "Damn Interesting". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ninja.gif)

Lots of "trophies" there...


Have you thought about a "tuna can"?

https://914werke.com/shop/ols/products/mini...p/v/OIL-SMP-ASM

Puppy MIGHT save the engine in high G environment.

As it's super easy to install I consider it a MUST HAVE for these engines in a 914.

I like an AccuSump more but those are 10 times the work and cost of a Tuna Can.

I'd run a tuna can on everything, even if I also had an accusump...

Yeah, there is thousands of dollars worth of "junk" on that top shelf. I have considered a tuna can, but I don't autocross or race this car, and I am worried about a racoon/possum strike. I live in a very rural area.

[sdoolin]

Green/red is oil pressure sender idiot light.

Thank you Flaca. Anyone know what that white wire is for? The wire appears OE, but the connector does not.

[sdoolin]

@sdoolin

did anyone every address your question about what appeared to be some
oil seepage from the base of the cylinder at the case? I too am about 5-6k miles from my rebuild 2 years ago and now have a very slow drip leak, and i can trace it to there as well, its not my push rod tubes . i am thinking about pulling the motor to check the torque on the head studs , did you do this? i have heard that we may see some stretch of the head bolts. BTW looks like new, very nice.

Phil

I never heard from anyone about that leakage, so have moved on. I did re-torque the cylinder head nuts, but none of them moved very much at all.

[Dave_Darling]

[quote name='sdoolin' date='Mar 11 2024, 06:37 AM' post='3133254
Thank you Flaca. Anyone know what that white wire is for? The wire appears OE, but the connector does not.
[/quote]

The white wire is the power connection for the AAR. It should get +12V any time the fuel pump is running.

--DD

[sdoolin]

[quote name='Dave_Darling' date='Mar 11 2024, 10:40 PM' post='3133368']
[quote name='sdoolin' date='Mar 11 2024, 06:37 AM' post='3133254
Thank you Flaca. Anyone know what that white wire is for? The wire appears OE, but the connector does not.
[/quote]

The white wire is the power connection for the AAR. It should get +12V any time the fuel pump is running.

--DD
[/quote]

Thank you DD. I am running carbs (love them) so this wire is not needed.

[sdoolin]

I (finally) have the engine back in the car. I have the heat exchanges and related ducts and heater bits all installed. When I went to install the muffler (it is a Bursch unit), I noticed that things don't line up. The flanges on the muffler are closer together than the flanges on the heat exchangers. This means that the bolt holes on the muffler do not align with the bolt holes on the heat exchangers, they are off by maybe 1/4". I don't remember having this problem the last time I installed the engine.

I am considering loosening the heat exchangers and related bits to give me some "wiggle room" to line up the flanges and bolt holes. I am worried though that this may impair the ability for the heat exchangers to seat solidly and completely in the heads against the copper gaskets?

Anyone else run into this issue? Maybe I have just found an excuse to purchase a new muffler?

[930cabman]

I (finally) have the engine back in the car. I have the heat exchanges and related ducts and heater bits all installed. When I went to install the muffler (it is a Bursch unit), I noticed that things don't line up. The flanges on the muffler are closer together than the flanges on the heat exchangers. This means that the bolt holes on the muffler do not align with the bolt holes on the heat exchangers, they are off by maybe 1/4". I don't remember having this problem the last time I installed the engine.

I am considering loosening the heat exchangers and related bits to give me some "wiggle room" to line up the flanges and bolt holes. I am worried though that this may impair the ability for the heat exchangers to seat solidly and completely in the heads against the copper gaskets?

Anyone else run into this issue? Maybe I have just found an excuse to purchase a new muffler?

Yes, I have seen this and have not gotten to the bottom of it. Must be mis alignment at the heat exchanger/cylinder head connection or bent heat exchangers.

[Dave_Darling]

If the difference is about 1 3/4", it would be a mismatch between the muffler type and exchanger type (1.7/8 versus 2.0). But with a 1/4" difference, it's just things going on a little crooked.

This is why we recommend that the entire exhaust is put on the car loosely before you tighten things up.

If you're worried about the seal on the copper gaskets, pull them out and heat them red-hot to anneal them, making them soft again. Once they cool down, re-install everything and only tighten the fasteners once the pieces are on and lined up.

--DD

[sdoolin]

If the difference is about 1 3/4", it would be a mismatch between the muffler type and exchanger type (1.7/8 versus 2.0). But with a 1/4" difference, it's just things going on a little crooked.

This is why we recommend that the entire exhaust is put on the car loosely before you tighten things up.

If you're worried about the seal on the copper gaskets, pull them out and heat them red-hot to anneal them, making them soft again. Once they cool down, re-install everything and only tighten the fasteners once the pieces are on and lined up.

--DD

Thanks DD. Not a mismatch, it was all bolted up and running well previous to this project. I'm going to loosen everything up significantly and give it another shot. The copper gaskets are new, and have been annealed. Learned that from many years of bus ownership.

[bkrantz]

Yup, enough play in the exhaust pipe connections to the heads to skew the flanges for the muffler by at least 1/4". I try to remember not to tighten the nuts on the head studs until I have the muffler bolted up.

[sdoolin]

Loosened everything up, removed the heater ducts and flappers and wala - muffler went on easily. I'm sure I had to do the same thing last time around, but obviously have forgotten. Now everything on the underside of the car is buttoned up except for a bit of wiring. Next I move to the topside to re-install fuel lines and carbs. Hoping it is a runner again sometime this weekend.

[GBX0073]

Great Picture Looking good !

[technicalninja]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Nice and clean!

Makes it so much easier to see any leaks.


I'm a believer in Tracer Line oil die (and AC die!).

Glows YELLOW under UV light.

Amazon has multiple options for high power UV light sources.

Yellow lens "blue blocker" glasses help bigtime.

[sdoolin]

Thanks for the compliments in the cleanliness. But I have bad news. Very frustrating, bad news.

Last night I poured 4 quarts of (expensive) Brad Penn 20W50 into the engine. Did not start it, or even crank it over. This morning I inspected for oil leaks and found (expensive) Bad Penn 20W50 coating the right side of the engine, above and on the side of the oil sump. Not good.

It appears to be leaking (a lot) at the case through bolt between cylinders 3 & 4. There is a pronounced, and obvious "stream" of oil from that bolt. Damnit. I also have oil on the case studs/bolts along the bottom of the oils sump. Damnit again.

So, it all has to come out, and I probably will have to split the cases. Which is a MUCH longer project than I had anticipated.

I have built a few of these engines (probably 5, (I owned several busses)), and have followed "best practices" for sealing the cases (according to Jake Raby's assembly video) but I obviously missed something here.

Damnit.

[technicalninja]

Post a pic of your leak point please.

Really strange to have a static leak that sounds like it's HIGHER than the oil level should be in the sump.

Just looked at my 73 2.0l case...

I found a possible source of the leak!

The lower bolt for the middle camshaft bearing ALSO holds the pick-up and the clearance for this MIGHT be a leak path.

Doesn't look like a good way to seal it internally. Only solution is to add some type of sealing washer under the fastener...

This will be a 13mm headed bolt lower than and between the two pair of push rod tubes, the sump has a half circle depression depression in it to allow access to this fastener.

All of the other studs and bolts have two flat faces on the case completely surrounding the fasteners so these should be much less prone to leak.

I wouldn't take it apart until I really zeroed in on the leak. The lower cam shaft bearing bore bolts MIGHT be under the oil level...

You might be able to stop this leak with an aluminum crush washer
Another option is AC sealing rings-bunch of sizes, and they are crush rings with an O-ring built into the ID (Most!) or in the case of Late model Ford the OD.

I'd go crush ring, flat washer, blue Loctite on threads or class 4 nut if this spot is running a stud in your car.

Might be easy to fix.

"Diag before repair."

Ninja's second most important rule...

First is "There are always exceptions to the rules, rules are for fools, wise men use good judgement first" . (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ninja.gif)

[technicalninja]

You're going to need a mirror with all the stuff you have installed to even see this pup.

Removing the exhaust system will give you better access...

My wife bought me one of these as a present. I use the piss out of mine.

https://www.harborfreight.com/35-in-digital...slot-64170.html

Lots of cheaper options available that use a cell phone.

They will probably work equally well for what you need.

[sdoolin]

Pic below. Hard to get a good picture but you can see (well, I can see) the leak at the center bolt between the 2 push rod tubes. It is "shiny" with oil at that bolt, and there is a washer behind the bolt head.

Agree Ninja, this seems as if it is above what the oil level would be in the sump. Which is both confusing and frustrating.

For sure the engine has to come out. But not sure (yet) if I gotta split the cases.

[technicalninja]

I'd first clean all the oil with B12 carb spray and needle tipped blowgun.

Drain oil into clean pan.

Get the suspect area dry.

Have someone else fill it while I watched that spot like a hawk.

I cannot fathom why that should even see oil much less leak profusely by simply filling the sump.

[technicalninja]

You're running carbs...

My 75 came with a brand-new progressive Weber 2 bbl kit in the center.

No way I'm going to run that IN THE CAR!

I'm keeping it anyways because it is the ultimate "run engine before installation"
solution out there!

I would have run that after I installed tranny and heat exchangers to verify engine before installation.

The crappy little progressive needs little tuning to make it "run".

I will initially be running dual IDFs on the car.

I'll break in the cam, run the engine till warm, set dist timing, get it to the point I'm happy on the progressive.
Allow to cool, recheck head bolt torque and valve adjustment, change oil (if fresh engine) and then install engine and the real carburetors...

You can do the same with the IDFs. They might be a bit more work than the progressive. If they were close before you took them out, they should be still close enough to run for 20 minutes...
All you need is a 12V power source for distributor and starter and a rudimentary fuel system. A gas can and a simple electric fuel pump is my solution but You can probably supply enough fuel for test bed run via a simple gravity feed from the fuel tank. Put it at least two feet higher than the carbs and create a siphon.
I don't suck on the line anymore. I'll put most of the line into the fuel tank, cap my finger tightly over the open end and pull a column of fuel in the line to start the siphon.

This is not enough flow to test under load but just "on the transmission" does NOT allow for load testing anyways.

Wouldn't take much to be able to run that out of the chassis...