Rebuilt my 2.0 back in 2016. Full "Raby Spec" 2056. Runs very well. It is out of the car right now as I am dealing with a rusty battery tray (separate thread on that). It appears that I have leaks at most/all of the pushrod tube seals, the valve cover seals, and the rear main seal. This is not a surprise to me, I clean the bottom of the engine regularly, and knew this day was coming

Pretty sure I used the Victor Reinz gasket set that came with my engine "kit" from the Type IV Store. I used the cork valve cover seals from the Victor Reinz set. I did not use any RTV anywhere. Hate the stuff. I know I used a rear main seal from GoWesty as someone back then had suggested it is a better part then what is included with the Victor Reinz set.

I installed new pushrod tubes and used the O-Rings from the Victor Reinz set.

Does anyone really have an oil tight VW Type IV engine? If yes, how does none do that?

That is the rumor. My last T-4 build didn’t leak a drop till I put oil in it and started it. I always thought it was why they made the P tube's and valve cover gaskets so easy to replace. Gets pretty hot in socal.

Jake Raby did a video about his frustration in finding a RMS that won’t leak. The video used to be on his Facebook page but he deleted it. In a nutshell, he concluded that no one sells a RMS that is any good. He found a seal he liked that doesn’t leak by using one from a military helicopter, but he is not revealing the source or identifying the seal info. There is another fix he discussed by adding third hole to the rear of the engine case so the oil trapped in the void at the rear of the main bearing can quickly drain back into the case. He said an upper hole has to be made as an air vent to prevent a vacuum forming between the bearing and the seal. If you look at your engine case you will see 2 drain back holes, but they are at the same level, so air can’t get in to that area and allow the oil to drain out.

My 2056 build has a couple smallish pushrod tubes leaking, it's on the list for work items this winter. I will be dropping the engine to clean up a couple other items

I have a 26mm type 1 CB performance oil pump that puts out 78 psi at start up with Driven 15w50 oil. I have a few drips in the front which I think is from seeping past the oil cooler seals until the oil pressure drops to normal. Rear seal drips. I used an Elring oil seal vs the Victor Reinz. So it leaves a few drops on the floor to mark it's turf. It could be worse if you owned an XKE Jag!

Jake also used to recommend plumbers pipe dope with Teflon in it for the pushrod tubes.

what about the spring loaded tubes, effective or not?


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On a type one, they would function. Don’t know if they would leak. But the type 4 push rod tube doesn’t work like that.

I think he is talking about the "Leak Proof Pushrod Tubes" you can get from PMB Performance.

I recently installed them on my car and so far, so good but it has been less than 1000 miles.
I've got an oil leak but it is not in the pushrod tubes.

For push rod tube seals, I didn't use the green ones from the kit but used
Parker 2-212 & 2-214 size Viton seals, no leaks. (I worked for Parker back then)

Barefoot

McMaster-Carr chemical resistant viton fluoroelastomer 1/8 fractional width, O-ring X profile.
2126540k152 (small end)
2146540k154 (large end)

Coat with DuPont Molycote 55 O ring grease.

No leaks!

Click to view attachment

I always fight with pushrod tube seals. You have to grease them prior to installing them. You also have to be sure the bores are CLEAN. If they are dirty, or have any burrs, you will end up with a pinched or cut pushrod tube seal and a leak.

Zach

This is a beautiful thing. I'm ordering these seals and the grease today.

Thanks for all replies...

I have tried to find the McMaster-Carr X-ring seals, but alas, McMaster-Carr either no longer offers them, they have been superseded to a new part number, and/or my internet search skills are lousy. Very likely the later. If anyone has a good part number I'd love the assist.

Also, what is the current group-think regarding bolt on valve covers from LE (Type IV Store)? I think decades ago the BugPack bolt on valve covers were shamed? It sure seems like bolting these covers on would resist oil leakage better than the bales? Plus I think they look cool.

Go to McMaster Carr web page. In the search type in 212. It will take you to the o ring profile page. Click on the X ring profile. 212 is 7/8 ID x 1 1/8 OD. Then go back to the search box and type in 214, and do the same. 214 is 1 ID x 1 1/4 OD The 6540K152 and 6540K154 will be at the end of the line by the pricing.

Nice:
Here's the direct links -
212:
https://www.mcmaster.com/products/o-rings/d...buna-n-o-rings/

and the 214:
https://www.mcmaster.com/products/o-rings/d...buna-n-o-rings/

I had a pair of cast aluminium valve covers and it appeared they would not fit.

Took a bit to find the x shaped viton rings.

this is the page I'll order off of.

https://www.mcmaster.com/products/o-rings/x...stomer-o-rings/

Just find 212 and 214 in the 1/8" selection.
The other fractional sizes don't exactly match the dimensions.

Thanks to Geezer914 for the initial heads up on these.

I like them a bunch better than regular or square cut versions.

Flaca's link are buna and square cut.

The smaller ones are in packs to 10, the bigger packs of 5 (darn it all!)

Im in agreement but cant get past the $$

Thank you geezer for the explicit instructions - very helpful. I had to order a pack of 100 of the 212s, and a pack of 25 of the 214s. Which is fine. I'll have plenty of spares for the community. Looks like they will be here tomorrow. Ordered the Dupont Molykote 55 a little earlier. It ships in a week.

Feeling good about the solution!

I'm with you, I hadn't noticed the price. Sheesh that is a LOT.

I'm betting he found a reverse style seal.

All the manufactures are moving in this direction.

The rear seal for Gen 3 GM small blocks and Mazda/Ford 2.0-2.5l engines are reverse lip style. I've NEVER seen one leak...

As crankcase pressure goes up these seal even better.

When I need one for my T4, I'm going to research this...

I've got a 98 M3. The original seal ($20) has been replaced by one of this style seal.
The "new" seal is over $80...

I've been drilling extra holes in seal bores for decades (just like Raby) I've never done a RMS like this but cam seals all can be helped by adding and increasing drain back and vent passages.

The silicone valve cover gaskets Aircooled.Net used to sell work so much better than the cork ones. Not sure who sells those anymore, but take a look:

https://www.cbperformance.com/category-s/40...w=15&page=1

Thank you for that. I broke down and ordered a set of the CB bolt on valve covers. I have literally wanted a set since I built my first bus engine in college (in mid 80's). I couldn't afford them back then. Now even if they don't cure an oil leak, I'll have them in the shop.

914World Rocks!

Regular valve covers work fine. You don't need a special bolt on deal.

For valve cover gaskets, I have always had a lot of success using a standard cork gasket. I use a THIN smear of RTV on the side of the gasket that goes into the valve cover to hold it in place. I do not use ANY RTV on the side of the gasket that goes on the head.

Using this method, a standard cork valve cover gasket will last years and several on off cycles.

Zach

'74 2.0, 28k miles

I tried to tighten the leaks with the engine in the car, 4-5 tries and then I took the engine out, tore near everything off (cylinders stayed on) and cleaned and cleaned and cleaned until all of the oil marks were removed.

all rubber/synthetic(?) seals were replaced: front/rear, the most important oil cooler seals, and all of the push-rod seals. I bought a few new push rod tubes, a couple were bent and well, did not look very good. I did not use any LTV for anything because of the high operating temperature. (this is an opinion only). I used Permatex 80017 to secure the push-rod tubes seals and the others so when placed into position they stay in that position, and it may provide that little bit extra sealant. Though the odor is not very good I have had good results with Permatex - I think sealants, after I have had a few years of experience with them, is a matter of learning how to use the one of choice, all are a bit nuanced (again, opinion) and one persons perfect sealant is another persons evil sealant.

The engine has been in for 2 years, not a leak. I did have one or two of the push-rod tubes start seeping in the beginning, I removed them with the engine in the car and then re-sealed with great success.

Not a drop on my garage floor.

CTC911CTC

Second that, Permatex Hi Tac gasket cement on the valve cover side and a light coat of grease on the side towards the head. 914 Rubber sells a thicker cork gasket if your bails are week.

The VW logo on the cover goes UPSIDE DOWN when the cover is installed correctly. I use Gasgacinch 440-A between
the gasket and valve cover. Dry between the gasket and head.

I use standard cork Victor Reinz gaskets - I tried the extra thick ones and they were too thick for me.

Permatex Aviation Gasket sealant on gaskets like taco plate and tuna can.

Been working for me - not a drip other than from the oil pressure extension hose threads - which was eliminated with some (wait for it) Permatex Aviation Gasket sealant.

The truly leak-free type 4 engine might be a fantasy. I chased that grail for a year, which involved multiple engine drops. In the end I think (knock on wooden head) got all the significant leaks, but I know a couple of places, including push-rod tubes) still weep a bit. Good luck.

pushrod seals are an o ring...
they are designed to spin or be free to turn
any type of RTV on those seals is not correct.

yeo

Still working on teardown, finding pretty much what I thought I would. I was expecting evidence of pushrod tube seal leakage, RMS leakage, and even oil pump gasket leakage, all fixable. In the pic below, I'm curious about the amount of oil on the base of the jugs where they get very friendly with the case. Also the amount of oil on the studs. This is above the inner pushrod tube seals, but it seems (to me) like I may be leaking at the base of the jugs? Which I would hate? Interestingly, and just to jinx myself, the oil cooler seals are nice and dry. There about 6K miles on this engine since complete rebuild.

Click to view attachment

Really despise oil leaks. I suppose owning an air cooled vehicle doesn’t make much sense but I digress... My engine leaves a series of oil markings that keep me from parking in certain places without a diaper (sheet of cardboard). Seems to be coming primarily from the front; I suspect the oil pump or front seal, that leak then blows back along the bottom of the engine making it difficult to find any possible additional leaks.

Anyway, I hope to pull the engine over the winter to address this, hope being the operative word...

Picture of the PMB Tubes

Bob B

Try this


Click to view attachment

Wow those tubes look nice. don't think I want to pull the engine just to install them though.

But one more thing to think about....

That's them, knew I'd seen them somewhere.. think I'll pick up a set at some point (but hey they are currently on sale ).

You don't need to pull the engine to install the pushrod tubes. But, yes it is easier to install them on an engine stand.

Just looked closer at the above pushrod tubes. Those are for a type I VW, not a 914 head.

I have ordered new pushrod tubes from TIVStore, have the fancy McMaster-Carr X-ring pushrod tube seals, and various other new gaskets. Much cleaning required before re-assembly.

Question:

What is current group-think on phenolic spacers and gaskets? I am running carbs (love them), and I use a gasket on each side of the phenolic spacer, which gives the intake manifold nuts precious little grip on the studs. Can I lose the paper gaskets?

Agree, and there is zero RTV on this engine. When I was younger I "may have" used a pound of RTV on a bus engine.

DuPont Moly coat 55 O ring grease!

It’s called controled seepage

Good they should be fine ,just be aware you really need to replace the rocker studs to heavy duty ones that have 8mm thread on the outside ,the puny 7mm stock ones are not up to holding rocker gear and the alloy cover .
Edit ....just had a look on CB listing ,keen sale price and they come with correct hardware so as mentioned you be happy with these .
When removing the old studs from the your heads it pays to head the stud bosses up to help them unscrew so you don't pull the threads ,I found them rather tight on my last build with these alloy covers, sorry but don't remember what torque I used but that should be in the instructions or call CB ,cheers.
Click to view attachment

OK and there's multiple options for these on a VW 1600 apparently - so strange if nobody offered the same for a type 4.. I didn't take much time looking into it but I wonder if there are any options via the aircraft industry. If not, then here's a business opportunity for some industrious types.

.

I have a brand new, fresh tube of it!

Spent all day cleaning. Have a pretty good contact cleaner & bourbon buzz. Waiting for new pushrod tubes and various gaskets. I have questions about phenolic spacers and exhaust bolts...

Click to view attachment

Thank you for this bit of info. CB is waiting on gaskets to ship my bolt on covers. I will revisit this when I get to this point in the assembly.

Did you install the engine with these covers? I had a set of cast aluminum covers and when I tried to install them with the engine in the car, I ran into clearance issues.

I have a set of those fancy valve covers for a Type IV. Not worth the money. They don't prevent leaks any better than the stock covers, and the rubber gaskets are hard to find.

If I can find all the hardware for them, you can have them for free.

Very kind offer. I have a set on order from CB. But if you wanna send yours away, I'll store them safely in my barn for decades.

Thinking about phenolic spacers, the spacers between the cyl. head and the intake runners.

Do I need these if I am running carbs? I have been running them, along with a gasket on each side of them. I believe the rationale for running them is to provide some thermal barrier between the heads and the intake so as not to vaporize the gasoline in the float bowls. This has worked well, but the thickness of the two gaskets and the spacer gives the intake manifold nuts precious little bit on the studs?

Is there a sealant I can run in place of the gaskets and keep using the phenolic spacers?