Front Sidemarker Flasher Module Options

[Spoke]

Maybe this is the procedure in this thread:
https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-914...rn-signals.html

@FlacaProductions

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

This looks like the mod to make the sidemarkers flash with the turnsignals. Although it only works if all bulbs are incandescent.

This is a simplified schematic of the OEM front turnsignal, front sidemarker and rear turnsignal. Front sidemarker is independent of the turnsignal.



In the modified solution to blink the sidemarker, the sidemarker ground wire is removed and that pin of the sidemarker is attached to the turnsignal wire.

With running lights off and turnsignal active, the turnsignal input alternates between 12V and zero thus powering the sidemarker through the front and rear running light filaments to ground. The front and rear running light filaments are 5W each while the sidemarker is probably 2-3W. Most of the 12V is dropped across the sidemarker.

With running lights on and turnsignal active, the sidemarker is off when the turnsignal is on and sidemarker on when the turnsignal is off.

This is the same principle behind the foglight relay and high beam headlight. Works well with incandescent but does not work for any LEDs in the circuit.

[FlacaProductions]

Interesting and didn't want to rain on your development parade - but since that mod is only for incandescent bulb, i'm out. LED all the way....eagerly awaiting your boards.

[Spoke]

The driver side installation went very well. Lessons learned from the passenger side disassembly and reassembly made installation much easier.

After pulling the connectors off the turnsignal and sidemarker, the sidemarker boot was warmed up and with soapy water, the 2 connectors were pulled out without breaking.

To unfish the wires from the turnsignal boot, the end of the boot going to the trunk was pulled out which made finding each wire and pulling them out of the boot much easier.

On reinstall of the sidemarker boot, instead of pre-crimping the spades on the sidemarker wire then trying to fish them in, the wires were fished into the turnsignal boot then sidemarker boot and spades crimped on then.



With both boots free of the vehicle, it was simple to fish the new wires into the boots then mount the boots on the vehicle.

[fixer34]

So I got looking at the diagrams and wondering if this will work. Need 2 small relays and 2 diodes. Should be able to mount on a small PCB.

Turn signal feeds thru N/C contact on TR relay, diode prevents backfeed to running lights.
Running light likewise feeds thru RR relay. Also energizes TR relay
When running lights on, and turn signal activated, Flasher pulses the running lights relay, effectively turning them off. So the side marker actually flashes opposite of the front and rear lights.
Minimal stock wiring disruption and should work for incandescent, LED, or a combination.

 Relay_board.pdf ( 1004.76k ) Number of downloads: 89

[Spoke]

So I got looking at the diagrams and wondering if this will work. Need 2 small relays and 2 diodes. Should be able to mount on a small PCB.

Turn signal feeds thru N/C contact on TR relay, diode prevents backfeed to running lights.
Running light likewise feeds thru RR relay. Also energizes TR relay
When running lights on, and turn signal activated, Flasher pulses the running lights relay, effectively turning them off. So the side marker actually flashes opposite of the front and rear lights.
Minimal stock wiring disruption and should work for incandescent, LED, or a combination.

 Relay_board.pdf ( 1004.76k ) Number of downloads: 89

Looks like a cool circuit. Pretty much what I'm doing. I have the steering diodes and instead of relays I'm using FETs although I only have one FET. The FET is controlled by a comparator circuit which monitors the turnsignal and turns the FET off.

The PCB is turning out to be a small part of this assembly. Between having 30 individual wires and 40 spade crimp connectors, assembly of the wires is the most intense process.

[fixer34]

So I got looking at the diagrams and wondering if this will work. Need 2 small relays and 2 diodes. Should be able to mount on a small PCB.

Turn signal feeds thru N/C contact on TR relay, diode prevents backfeed to running lights.
Running light likewise feeds thru RR relay. Also energizes TR relay
When running lights on, and turn signal activated, Flasher pulses the running lights relay, effectively turning them off. So the side marker actually flashes opposite of the front and rear lights.
Minimal stock wiring disruption and should work for incandescent, LED, or a combination.

 Relay_board.pdf ( 1004.76k ) Number of downloads: 89

Looks like a cool circuit. Pretty much what I'm doing. I have the steering diodes and instead of relays I'm using FETs although I only have one FET. The FET is controlled by a comparator circuit which monitors the turnsignal and turns the FET off.

The PCB is turning out to be a small part of this assembly. Between having 30 individual wires and 40 spade crimp connectors, assembly of the wires is the most intense process.

Yea, I figured there was a way to do it with modern electronics, I just went 'old school' to see if it would work.
A lot easier to draw out on paper than to integrate into an actual wiring harness.

[BillC]

@Spoke -- I love the idea, but have a question about the installation. Instead of installing two modules, one at each front corner, what about making a single module that goes under the dash and connects to the switch end(s) of the wiring harness? This seems like it would be a simpler install, since you wouldn't need to pull the wires out of the fenders and rubber conduits/boots, and you could control both sidemarker lights from one box. Basically, it would be putting the new controls at the other end of the wires, instead of at the light-bulb end.

[Spoke]

@Spoke -- I love the idea, but have a question about the installation. Instead of installing two modules, one at each front corner, what about making a single module that goes under the dash and connects to the switch end(s) of the wiring harness? This seems like it would be a simpler install, since you wouldn't need to pull the wires out of the fenders and rubber conduits/boots, and you could control both sidemarker lights from one box. Basically, it would be putting the new controls at the other end of the wires, instead of at the light-bulb end.

@BillC

Interesting idea. Not sure where the wires would be under the dash or maybe on the fuse panel.

On my '71, the passenger side had 4 wires: turnsignal, running, sidemarker, ground. On the driver side there were only 3 wires: turnsignal, running+sidemarker, ground. So not sure the wires for both front sidemarkers could be found on the fuse panel.

[fixer34]

@Spoke -- I love the idea, but have a question about the installation. Instead of installing two modules, one at each front corner, what about making a single module that goes under the dash and connects to the switch end(s) of the wiring harness? This seems like it would be a simpler install, since you wouldn't need to pull the wires out of the fenders and rubber conduits/boots, and you could control both sidemarker lights from one box. Basically, it would be putting the new controls at the other end of the wires, instead of at the light-bulb end.

I believe the sidemarkers are connected to the front running lights on each side with just a couple 12" (guess) wires, 12v and ground. To have them work independently from the front signals, you would need to disconnect the short 12v ones and run at least 1 wire from under the dash along the existing harness up to each side marker. So you are into the conduits/boots anyway.
In theory there would be less wiring modification since you 'should' be able to add the inputs to the control board right from the source switch as you say. The turn signal/flasher connection is actually quite easy; add spade lugs to fuses 5 and 6 and those are your left/right inputs. Running lights/emergency flasher is another matter. those wires come directly off the flasher. A bit of work to get to that and add a spade lug to the switch, then run that wire down to the control board.
Would require a 'dual' control board since flashing each sidemarker is an independent operation.
Both options would work, one isn't necessarily better/easier than the other. Just depends where you want to put your efforts.

[BillC]

@Spoke -- I love the idea, but have a question about the installation. Instead of installing two modules, one at each front corner, what about making a single module that goes under the dash and connects to the switch end(s) of the wiring harness? This seems like it would be a simpler install, since you wouldn't need to pull the wires out of the fenders and rubber conduits/boots, and you could control both sidemarker lights from one box. Basically, it would be putting the new controls at the other end of the wires, instead of at the light-bulb end.

@BillC

Interesting idea. Not sure where the wires would be under the dash or maybe on the fuse panel.

On my '71, the passenger side had 4 wires: turnsignal, running, sidemarker, ground. On the driver side there were only 3 wires: turnsignal, running+sidemarker, ground. So not sure the wires for both front sidemarkers could be found on the fuse panel.

Oh well, it was a nice idea while it lasted. Once again, outsmarted by those old german engineers.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

Any idea when these new modules will come to market? I'll want to buy a set when I order the front LED boards (already have the rear boards).

[Spoke]

Any idea when these new modules will come to market?

@BillC

I'm finally back to addressing this function. Hopefully soon. I'll have new boards next week and should be assembling them shorty after that. If you're interested in trying these out I'd like to give you a set of modules.

So I got looking at the diagrams and wondering if this will work. Need 2 small relays and 2 diodes. Should be able to mount on a small PCB.

Turn signal feeds thru N/C contact on TR relay, diode prevents backfeed to running lights.
Running light likewise feeds thru RR relay. Also energizes TR relay
When running lights on, and turn signal activated, Flasher pulses the running lights relay, effectively turning them off. So the side marker actually flashes opposite of the front and rear lights.
Minimal stock wiring disruption and should work for incandescent, LED, or a combination.

@fixer34

Turns out the rear turnsignal-to-bake module I have uses almost the exact circuit as you drew with 2 relays. The only difference is the RTS-Brake modules use a double pole relay and the 2nd poles take the place of the diodes in your drawing.

The RTS-Brake modules with brake on flash the turnsignals opposite of the front turnsignals. Since the front sidemarker and front turnsignal are adjacent I wanted them to flash in unison with running lights on and off.

The front sidemarker flasher module uses 1 relay and some circuitry to keep the FSM and FTS in unison. Here's the circuit I'll be getting next week.

There's an obvious mistake on the circuit. Can you spot it? Hopefully it will work as printed or I'll have to do some minor mods on these V1 boards.

[Cairo94507]

Another way to make our cars a little bit more visible and safer on the road. Thank you Jerry. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[fixer34]

Any idea when these new modules will come to market?

@BillC

I'm finally back to addressing this function. Hopefully soon. I'll have new boards next week and should be assembling them shorty after that. If you're interested in trying these out I'd like to give you a set of modules.

So I got looking at the diagrams and wondering if this will work. Need 2 small relays and 2 diodes. Should be able to mount on a small PCB.

Turn signal feeds thru N/C contact on TR relay, diode prevents backfeed to running lights.
Running light likewise feeds thru RR relay. Also energizes TR relay
When running lights on, and turn signal activated, Flasher pulses the running lights relay, effectively turning them off. So the side marker actually flashes opposite of the front and rear lights.
Minimal stock wiring disruption and should work for incandescent, LED, or a combination.

@fixer34

Turns out the rear turnsignal-to-bake module I have uses almost the exact circuit as you drew with 2 relays. The only difference is the RTS-Brake modules use a double pole relay and the 2nd poles take the place of the diodes in your drawing.

The RTS-Brake modules with brake on flash the turnsignals opposite of the front turnsignals. Since the front sidemarker and front turnsignal are adjacent I wanted them to flash in unison with running lights on and off.

The front sidemarker flasher module uses 1 relay and some circuitry to keep the FSM and FTS in unison. Here's the circuit I'll be getting next week.

There's an obvious mistake on the circuit. Can you spot it? Hopefully it will work as printed or I'll have to do some minor mods on these V1 boards.

I still have a couple 1.5 x2" project boards sitting on a work table, about halfway done. I was going for the cheap route so didn't worry about the front and side markers flashing at the same time. Figured an alternating pattern might be more noticable. One of these days (been saying that for over a year so I understand yours..) I'll finish a set and then see if I can figure out where to mount them.

[Spoke]

I still have a couple 1.5 x2" project boards sitting on a work table, about halfway done. I was going for the cheap route so didn't worry about the front and side markers flashing at the same time. Figured an alternating pattern might be more noticable. One of these days (been saying that for over a year so I understand yours..) I'll finish a set and then see if I can figure out where to mount them.

Go for it. It should work just fine. The RTS-Brake modules I make for the rear of the car can also be FSM-Running for the front sidemarkers with alternating FSM-FTS with running lights on.

The relays I use are tiny and carry 2A with DPDT contacts. Using these you'd need 2 relays and no other components. Use AGQ200A12Z if you are doing surface mount or AGQ20012 if doing through hole. Both are in stock at Digikey.

[Spoke]

Got the first modules assembled and working.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POX0O5kFm7g

[Spoke]

There's an obvious mistake on the circuit. Can you spot it?

Anyone find the error? I have to use kapton tape and a couple wires to correct the error.

[Spoke]

@Cairo94507
@BillC

Your front sidemarker flasher assemblies are ready to ship.
Included:
2 FSM Flasher modules
2 FTS harnesses
2 FSM harnesses
6 Female QC connectors for the FSM harnesses
4 1/4in Heat Shrink tubes
4 Tie wraps

Thanks for trying these out. No charge for these though I'd appreciate feedback on the install and operation. Please take a couple of pictures if possible and post them and feedback on this thread.

The instructions aren't on my website yet so I'll list some things here.

The module and harness connectors are polarized so it should be easy to get input/output correct.

The I/O wires on the modules are grouped for the turnsignal (3 wires) and sidemarker (2 wires)

The female connectors on the sidemarker harnesses are to be installed by you after fishing through the rubber boots.



The input side has male spades to connect to the OEM wires and the output side has female spades to the wire harnesses.



QC connectors for the sidemarker harnesses and a few extra. Heat shrink tubes are for any OEM connectors should they not have insulation. Tie wraps to clean up the wiring.

[Spoke]

The installation procedure is:

1) Jack the car up and remove the front tire for the best access.

2) Pull back the boots from the turnsignal and sidemarker and pull all connectors.

3) Carefully pull out the wires from the trunk side. The sidemarker boots have small aperture and it may be difficult to get the OEM connectors out of the boots. Be patient and perhaps use petroleum jelly or other lubricant to help.

4) Remove the turnsignal rubber boot from the hole to the trunk.

5) If the boots are crusty or damaged, replace them.

6) On the workbench, fish the turnsignal harness into the turnsignal boot with the female connectors towards the light housing.

7) Fish the sidemarker harness into the turnsignal boot then to the sidemarker boot.

8) Crimp the female QC connectors onto the ends of the sidemarker wires.

Your assembly should look like this. Note the sidemarker harness has black and brown wires unlike the picture showing red and brown wires.



9) fish the wires at the trunk interface into the hole and secure the boot.

10) Connect wires to the turnsignal housing and the sidemarker housing. Don't pull on boots to the housing until all testing is done.

11) Connect the OEM wires to the input side of the module and harness wires to the output side.

12) Test the module with lights on and with turnsignals on/off.

13) Clean up the wiring with tie wraps and tidy up the wiring and module.

14) Attach the boots to the housings.

15) Test again; Installation completed; repeat for other side.

[Cairo94507]

@Spoke - Wow! Thank you Jerry. I look forward to installing these as soon as I am able. I will definitely take in-progress photos and post them. I think adding the flashing side marker light is just another way to make our cars more visible on the road and a bit safer. Thanks again. Michael (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[saladin]

@Cairo94507 and @BillC look forward to your reviews and @Spoke eventual availability.

Thanks,

Ken