Cairo's Six - Ready for the Next Evolution?, 3.2 Gone; 3.6 going in. Options

[Cairo94507]

Ohhhhh noooooo; we shall have to look into that. Thanks for the heads-up Andy- much appreciated. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[East coaster]

On my 3.6 I used the 75-76 mount/cover to mount my fuel pump under the tank just like stock later cars. It worked great and 3.6 pump mounted right up to it. Bonus is that it’s easy to access if needed.

[Cairo94507]

I just happen to know where I can get my hands on one of those late model mounts....

[tygaboy]

You can get the pump mount kits new from Restoration Designs - part # PP318P.

[Cairo94507]

I confirmed the 993 has the fuel pump under the gas tank as well. So... two steps forward 1 step backward. We shall address that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Steve]

I plan on using the same 044/GT3 pump that I used with my 3.2 mounted in the same 75 location as before.

[Cairo94507]

@Steve Lucky; 1 less issue to deal with. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Cairo94507]

Started on the engine modifications today and had a lot of fun. Greg replaced the badly damaged engine wiring harness with a nice new OEM harness. Then swapped out the stock fan belt setup for the Clewett Serpentine system (damn that's a beautiful piece) it's a shame no one will ever see it once it is in the car. We also moved the fuel pump to the front under the tank- fits quite nicely. Then moved the fuel filter from within the engine compartment to under the engine shelf. One less thing in the engine compartment.

I did a little cleanup on the engine- but it was pretty tidy to begin with. I was very impressed and please to see the top of the engine was spotless when we pulled the alternator/fan assembly out. I blew it put, but only a little dust came out. I was thankful we had no nests or piles of nuts in there!

I think the next step is to replace the hydraulic valve lifters, I got a set of OEM ones just because the engine has sat for so long. Then we will get the engine tins done so that can get sent off to powder coat along with the fan shroud and electric fan assemble.

[tygaboy]

That serpentine set up is beautiful. Nice progress!

[Spoke]

That serpentine set up is beautiful. Nice progress!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

I'm thinking about doing that conversion on my 930. Are there any details on better grip? I'm installing the electric AC system and have the high output alternator installed. Just wondering if the flat belt is better than the OEM V-belt.

[Luke M]

Started on the engine modifications today and had a lot of fun. Greg replaced the badly damaged engine wiring harness with a nice new OEM harness. Then swapped out the stock fan belt setup for the Clewett Serpentine system (damn that's a beautiful piece) it's a shame no one will ever see it once it is in the car. We also moved the fuel pump to the front under the tank- fits quite nicely. Then moved the fuel filter from within the engine compartment to under the engine shelf. One less thing in the engine compartment.

I did a little cleanup on the engine- but it was pretty tidy to begin with. I was very impressed and please to see the top of the engine was spotless when we pulled the alternator/fan assembly out. I blew it put, but only a little dust came out. I was thankful we had no nests or piles of nuts in there!

I think the next step is to replace the hydraulic valve lifters, I got a set of OEM ones just because the engine has sat for so long. Then we will get the engine tins done so that can get sent off to powder coat along with the fan shroud and electric fan assemble.

What's your plan on the engine mount? Are you planning on modifying the factory 6 mount or aftermarket source? Did you run into any issues with the serpentine setup with the factory mount ? I've been eye balling that setup for my engine build but I think the mount needs some trimming done to it. As always great job and keep at it.

[Cairo94507]

Thanks Chris and Luke. I checked with James Patrick (PMS) about my stock 6 motor mount and he assured me it would not be a problem. He says they run them with no issues with big motors.

From the way the serpentine kit installs, I do not believe it will creat any issues. But, until we install the motor mount on the engine, during the next work session, I am not sure.

My brother (jokingly) suggested I finish the firewall area in front of the fan with a chrome panel so you could see the reflection of the Serpentine Belt kit. It is a cool set up and that belt with the tensioner should be perfect. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[ClayPerrine]

Just my .02, but I think the stock /6 mount is inadequate for a big six. The extra torque makes more twisting on the stock mount. I don't like it. Something like the Rich Johnson mount or the NaroEscape mount spreads the load out farther and on two separate mounts.


The serpentine belt kit is the bomb on a 914-6 conversion. I have one on my 4.0L motor, and it makes changing the belt on the roadside a 10 minute operation rather than 2 hours of trying to fit shims blindly. One word of caution though. Sometimes the alternator won't start charging after startup until you blip the throttle.

[Cairo94507]

Thanks Clay. I will call James and speak with him about the mount again to be sure. The reason I spoke with him about it initially, was I had the same concern about the torque of the motor and the stock 6 mount. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[ClayPerrine]

One other thing.

I don't know if the stock six mount will fit with the serpentine pulley. And even if it does, it may not have enough clearance to put a new belt on the pulley without removing the mount.

You should check it before you get it in the car.

[Cairo94507]

Will do. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[technicalninja]

That serpentine set up is beautiful. Nice progress!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

I'm thinking about doing that conversion on my 930. Are there any details on better grip? I'm installing the electric AC system and have the high output alternator installed. Just wondering if the flat belt is better than the OEM V-belt.

4 times the torque capability and 1/3 of the rotation friction...

It's why NO ONE uses V belts anymore!

Serps have been around 3 decades. For the last 2 decades it's been nothing but serps...
Even factory superchargers run a wide serpentine. They used to run Gilmer belts (like a timing belt). Serps solved this issue.

Clay's note of having to accelerate the alternator through "thermal cut in" the very first time is usually an indication of rotational speed reduction. The pully system is more "under-drive" than the original stock set up.

This sucks balls for a grocery getter that never exceeds 2500 rpm.

For a sports car that might see 7500 RPM it is "THE WAY" and should be applied.
You have to rev it up a bit on startup...

Thats what the loud pedal is for anyway!

I'm betting Clay's big six on startup is a symphony for a car guy!

Not so much for his neighbors...

[Root_Werks]

Not to hijack the thread, but the conversation around V-belt and the Serpentine belt is interesting.

There was a really good write-up (can't find it of course) on the VW Bug cooling limits. Folks thought the fan and tin were limited when it was actually the V-belt. Testing showed it started to slip around 4500rpm and would only turn the fan so fast. A change to a serpentine belt greatly increased the 4000+ rpm cooling.

Would imagine the 911 would be similar?

[Root_Werks]

Found it:

http://www.offroadvw.net/tech/wes/fan.html

[technicalninja]

Thanks!

That link was interesting...

We experienced cavitation on an RX3 ITA car in the cooling system.

The rotary engine had hardened pined stationary gears and could run up to 11K.

The water pump could NOT!

Massive underdrive solved the high RPM issues but slow RPM use would overheat the car after the change.

It's always a tradeoff...

Nice to know running a gaseous fan faster doesn't do the same thing.