Cairo's Six - Ready for the Next Evolution?, 3.2 Gone; 3.6 going in. Options

[ClayPerrine]

That serpentine set up is beautiful. Nice progress!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

I'm thinking about doing that conversion on my 930. Are there any details on better grip? I'm installing the electric AC system and have the high output alternator installed. Just wondering if the flat belt is better than the OEM V-belt.

4 times the torque capability and 1/3 of the rotation friction...

It's why NO ONE uses V belts anymore!

Serps have been around 3 decades. For the last 2 decades it's been nothing but serps...
Even factory superchargers run a wide serpentine. They used to run Gilmer belts (like a timing belt). Serps solved this issue.

Clay's note of having to accelerate the alternator through "thermal cut in" the very first time is usually an indication of rotational speed reduction. The pully system is more "under-drive" than the original stock set up.

This sucks balls for a grocery getter that never exceeds 2500 rpm.

For a sports car that might see 7500 RPM it is "THE WAY" and should be applied.
You have to rev it up a bit on startup...

Thats what the loud pedal is for anyway!

I'm betting Clay's big six on startup is a symphony for a car guy!

Not so much for his neighbors...

When leaving the house for an early morning event, I usually push the car to the street before lighting it off. And I idle my way out of the neighborhood. I may like the sound, but supertrapps at 6 am are an "acquired taste".

[rick 918-S]

That serpentine set up is beautiful. Nice progress!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

I'm thinking about doing that conversion on my 930. Are there any details on better grip? I'm installing the electric AC system and have the high output alternator installed. Just wondering if the flat belt is better than the OEM V-belt.

4 times the torque capability and 1/3 of the rotation friction...

It's why NO ONE uses V belts anymore!

Serps have been around 3 decades. For the last 2 decades it's been nothing but serps...
Even factory superchargers run a wide serpentine. They used to run Gilmer belts (like a timing belt). Serps solved this issue.

Clay's note of having to accelerate the alternator through "thermal cut in" the very first time is usually an indication of rotational speed reduction. The pully system is more "under-drive" than the original stock set up.

This sucks balls for a grocery getter that never exceeds 2500 rpm.

For a sports car that might see 7500 RPM it is "THE WAY" and should be applied.
You have to rev it up a bit on startup...

Thats what the loud pedal is for anyway!

I'm betting Clay's big six on startup is a symphony for a car guy!

Not so much for his neighbors...

When leaving the house for an early morning event, I usually push the car to the street before lighting it off. And I idle my way out of the neighborhood. I may like the sound, but supertrapps at 6 am are an "acquired taste".

I have GOT to hear those! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

[ClayPerrine]

That serpentine set up is beautiful. Nice progress!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

I'm thinking about doing that conversion on my 930. Are there any details on better grip? I'm installing the electric AC system and have the high output alternator installed. Just wondering if the flat belt is better than the OEM V-belt.

4 times the torque capability and 1/3 of the rotation friction...

It's why NO ONE uses V belts anymore!

Serps have been around 3 decades. For the last 2 decades it's been nothing but serps...
Even factory superchargers run a wide serpentine. They used to run Gilmer belts (like a timing belt). Serps solved this issue.

Clay's note of having to accelerate the alternator through "thermal cut in" the very first time is usually an indication of rotational speed reduction. The pully system is more "under-drive" than the original stock set up.

This sucks balls for a grocery getter that never exceeds 2500 rpm.

For a sports car that might see 7500 RPM it is "THE WAY" and should be applied.
You have to rev it up a bit on startup...

Thats what the loud pedal is for anyway!

I'm betting Clay's big six on startup is a symphony for a car guy!

Not so much for his neighbors...

When leaving the house for an early morning event, I usually push the car to the street before lighting it off. And I idle my way out of the neighborhood. I may like the sound, but supertrapps at 6 am are an "acquired taste".

I have GOT to hear those! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the headers and supertrapps are going the way of the dodo with the flat fan installation. I am going to 993 heat exchangers and a custom exhaust that will exit in the stock location. (yes, I want HEAT in the car!) I never liked the supertrapps. They were just a quick and dirty way to get the car running for Okteenerfest.

[rick 918-S]

That serpentine set up is beautiful. Nice progress!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

I'm thinking about doing that conversion on my 930. Are there any details on better grip? I'm installing the electric AC system and have the high output alternator installed. Just wondering if the flat belt is better than the OEM V-belt.

4 times the torque capability and 1/3 of the rotation friction...

It's why NO ONE uses V belts anymore!

Serps have been around 3 decades. For the last 2 decades it's been nothing but serps...
Even factory superchargers run a wide serpentine. They used to run Gilmer belts (like a timing belt). Serps solved this issue.

Clay's note of having to accelerate the alternator through "thermal cut in" the very first time is usually an indication of rotational speed reduction. The pully system is more "under-drive" than the original stock set up.

This sucks balls for a grocery getter that never exceeds 2500 rpm.

For a sports car that might see 7500 RPM it is "THE WAY" and should be applied.
You have to rev it up a bit on startup...

Thats what the loud pedal is for anyway!

I'm betting Clay's big six on startup is a symphony for a car guy!

Not so much for his neighbors...

When leaving the house for an early morning event, I usually push the car to the street before lighting it off. And I idle my way out of the neighborhood. I may like the sound, but supertrapps at 6 am are an "acquired taste".

I have GOT to hear those! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the headers and supertrapps are going the way of the dodo with the flat fan installation. I am going to 993 heat exchangers and a custom exhaust that will exit in the stock location. (yes, I want HEAT in the car!) I never liked the supertrapps. They were just a quick and dirty way to get the car running for Okteenerfest.

Heat is a good thing. Specifically in the early morning heading back from the RRC. Approaching the Johnson Eisenhower tunnels and it's cold enough to start snowing. Cold and scary with worn out 255/50 rear rubber (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[Cairo94507]

Spent the day getting oil lines sorted; still a little more to do on that but we should wrap up the lines on Friday.

Then Greg ( (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif) ) tackled the engine tins using Ben's tins- beautiful pieces BTW ( @MB911 ). Got both sides and the rear fitted. We still need to add the holes from the 993 tin for the plug wires to the new tins and do some final fitting. Friday we should get the last piece (front of the engine) done. Then the stuff I have for powder coat can all get sent off.

[East coaster]

Looks great! This is bringing back memories from when I did mine 18 years ago….time flies!

[Steve]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Awesome job! Looks great!!

[SirAndy]

Then Greg ( (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif) ) tackled the engine tins using Ben's tins- beautiful pieces BTW ( @MB911 ). Got both sides and the rear fitted. We still need to add the holes from the 993 tin for the plug wires to the new tins and do some final fitting. Friday we should get the last piece (front of the engine) done. Then the stuff I have for powder coat can all get sent off.

I case you haven't seen this yet:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&...st&p=904651

I used the stock 993 grommet holes for the plug wires and the sensor wires and just riveted them into the sheet-metal.

It looks a bit rough in the pictures but turned out nice once it was powder-coated.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)

[Cairo94507]

Hi Andy - Yes sir; saw how you did your tins and we will do the same for the spark plug wires. Thanks for the link. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Cairo94507]

Spent some more time yesterday and finished up as much of the oil lines as possible without the motor in place. Then Greg got the rear and side engine tins wrapped up. Today we will finish the front engine tin so I can get everything to the powder coater.

[tygaboy]

Looking REEEEEEEEALY good, Michael!
(That Greg guy does OK work... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) )

[Cairo94507]

Thanks Chris; yes, Greg is very talented, does beautiful work and tolerates my "assistance". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif) . He wrapped up the engine tins yesterday and they go to powder coat Monday along with a couple other parts. I have to say, the tins came out beautiful-thank you very much Greg. I can't wait to see them after powder coating. Here is a picture of where we mounted the oil cooler thermostat using an existing mounting point from the brake proportioning valve. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Luke M]

How did the factory 6 engine mount workout with the 3.6 and new belt setup?

[Cairo94507]

@Luke M - Hi Luke- We had to modify the factory 6 mount, (engine side) a little bit. The relief cut was to remove a bit of material where it bulges out so the pulley/belt would clear. We then added in material to tie it all back together and be strong again. In reality, bolting it in place keeps it together, but we wanted to be sure it was solid. Other then that, if fits perfectly with the Clewett serpentine belt system.

Yesterday, after considering the brake setup I had, we swapped out the 23MM master cylinder for a 19mm ATE. The 23 was good but gave me a very high, hard pedal. Replaced it and bled/flushed the system and the pedal is great now. The 23mm is really ideal for a 4-piston caliper setup- I have 914-6 GT rear calipers and '88 Carrera front calipers with 24mm rotors. I am looking forward to driving and seeing how they work now.

We got the engine tins back from powder coat and they came out beautiful. We installed the flywheel and clutch package. Then we replaced the hydraulic valve lifters. I just wanted to be sure we would not have any issues with lifters. The stock lifters, after sitting in the engine since '97 without running, upon inspection showed the rubber O-ring had hardened. The new ones are an improved design with a sort of teflon ring. They went right in; we installed new valve cover gaskets and hardware and that is done.

We also stripped the rubber boot off the 3.6 fan shroud part to add the "Mickey Mouse" ears that PMS offers so we will still have heat. I have to say, stripping the rubber off that part was a pain. Now I need to send the "ears" off to powder coat so it matches the tins.

OH, and for those "Porsche tax" followers, I was missing the small rubber "gasket" which fits into a slot on the outside of the cam chain box covers- straight piece of rubber with a channel that accepts the engine tin where it sits against the chain box cover. In Post 192, the last picture, shows the chain box cover with the engine tin slipped into the slot on the cover where the rubber gasket belongs. It actually looks like a wiper blade refill with a grove. I thought surely it would only be $10..... well $132 later I have those 2 small pieces of rubber coming from Porsche. That was with my PCA, AARP, AAA, Old Dude, and good customer discount.... man, Porsche, really?

[ClayPerrine]

You may have cleared the pulley, but did you leave enough room to get the belt past the front edge of the pulley?

Have you tried to put a new belt on the motor with the front mount bolted to it? Remember, on the side of the road, you will be doing this way down in a hole on the front of the motor. Yes, it is easier than changing the pulley shims, but I would suggest checking now to insure the clearance is there.

Mine is really tight between the pulley and the motor mount.

BTDT..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

[Cairo94507]

Thanks Clay; I will check that out tomorrow. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Cairo94507]

OK, we got another day in and are moving along nicely with this swap. I really look forward to my days working (watching mostly) with Greg. Nothing seems to unsettle him when we face a challenge.

First, @ClayPerrine Clay is correct; the Serpentine belt likely will not slip in and out with the front motor mount in place. That would be a flatbed ride home should that belt fail. I do not see this thing failing- it is quite stout, but that is the way it goes. We could cut more off the front motor mount to provide extra clearance, but we looked at it and decided not to do that. The motor mount is now installed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

We also swapped out the outer CV/axle bolts as they were a mismatch of 6 and 12 point. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) One was really badly buggered up and it took some ingenuity to get it out. We tried a bolt extractor kit as the inside of the 6-point allen was stripped pretty badly. As we worked through several possible remedies and came up scratch, our good friend HB, (owns 2 914's and Greg will be assembling a 3.2 SS motor for one of them) said wrap some aluminum foil around the 6 point allen and hammer it into the allen bolt. Greg looked at him, went and got some aluminum foil and that made the difference- that sucker came right out. Kudos to HB (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) . Now they are all the same and properly torqued.

We put juice to the system to trace some wires and I noticed my odometer was at 99301. Those are the original miles on my car and I made sure the new speedometer, (with the extra digit) carried over my existing mileage when we swapped in the 3.2. I thought that was cool as we are putting in a 993 motor.

We installed the new fuel filter under the engine shelf on the passenger side- it tucks up there nicely and gets it out of the engine compartment. We plumbed the fuel lines and wired up the fuel pump. The fuel lines, pump, etc., all work and fit nicely compared to what the fuel lines looked like with the 3.2. Why on earth would anyone piece together several small pieces of fuel line to supply the engine? That mess is out and now we have new lines and proper clamps. The wiring for the fuel pump is next-level greatness. Greg seems to enjoy wiring and making it appear factory correct. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

I am hoping to be back at Greg's on Tuesday to keep progress moving along.

[Cairo94507]

For those wondering, here are the dimensions of my front trunk louvers:

@seanpaulmc :

[Root_Werks]

I've used the foil trick on 12pt bolts before. Can't remember where I learned about it, but it really does help.

Project is coming along nicely! Really goes to show the different levels on swap complexity and time. This thread got me thinking about the challenge level for each six configuration:

Early card'd - Not bad, not much modifying beyond a stock six
Early MFI - About the same as carbs, but little extra work for fuel plumbing
CIS - Moderate to get the CIS to fit and look good, rotate 180, move the engine latch, fuel "center" mounted etc
Early DME - Haven't done one of these yet, but know it's a bit more involved, ECU, wiring etc.
964 - This thread! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)