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> Aftermarket FI with Single Throttle Body, getting started ...
SirAndy
post Aug 22 2005, 12:45 PM
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QUOTE (Bleyseng @ Aug 22 2005, 07:21 AM)
I don't think larger valves is needed

i already got the larger valves, so i'm sticking with them ... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

90 deg. bends and individual runners to the plenum would be nice, just gotta make that plenum big enough.
also, the small "stubbies" on the stock plenum have a rolled lip inside to aid airflow.
just something to remember ...

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smash.gif) Andy
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lapuwali
post Aug 22 2005, 01:01 PM
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How are you sizing the plenum? There seem to be several schools of thought on this.
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SirAndy
post Aug 22 2005, 01:40 PM
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QUOTE (lapuwali @ Aug 22 2005, 12:01 PM)
How are you sizing the plenum? There seem to be several schools of thought on this.

yes.

basically, i took measurements on several different porsche engines, including a few factory race engines, calculated the plenum volume per cylinder volume average and that's what i'm going to use ...

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif) Andy
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lapuwali
post Aug 22 2005, 01:59 PM
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What are you ending up with? What's your coefficient? I'd assume hp/liter would be a good yardstick, if you had some empirical data to go with that.
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SirAndy
post Aug 22 2005, 02:28 PM
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QUOTE (lapuwali @ Aug 22 2005, 12:59 PM)
What are you ending up with? What's your coefficient? I'd assume hp/liter would be a good yardstick, if you had some empirical data to go with that.

i'd rather not disclose that just yet ...

i wanna make sure it actually works before i lead other people down the wrong path ...

only the dyno can tell!
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool_shades.gif) Andy
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messix
post Aug 22 2005, 08:48 PM
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QUOTE (Bleyseng @ Aug 22 2005, 07:21 AM)
Dave, I am sure it will run but....odds are it will run out of air at high rpms.


Interesting Andy, I think I can get my welder guy to fab up some stuff with bends in it so its four runner to the plenum from the carb manifold. (I have some of those laying around as backup if you other idea didn't work.)

I don't think larger valves is neede just a different duration on the cam to use the extra air. Huge intake valves just get in the way and slow down the intake charge. 44mm should be plenty big for anything and not disrupt the port speed. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smash.gif)

bigger valves dont block the intake flow unless the valve is severly shrouded, either by the heads combustion chamber and or the cylinder wall.
the valve would have to pretty big to do that, and usually you still get an increase in flow due to the larger seat cross section area[ you are opening the port under the the valve seat right?]
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Katmanken
post Aug 24 2005, 04:05 PM
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Sor Ahndie,

Is your manifold gonna look kinda like this type 3 manifold?

Squareback Manifold

or this turbo manifold at STF?

Turbo Manifold

Ken
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SirAndy
post Aug 24 2005, 05:42 PM
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QUOTE (kwales @ Aug 24 2005, 03:05 PM)
Is your manifold gonna look kinda like this type 3 manifold?

or this turbo manifold at STF?

nope, first one only has a single runner per side and no common plenum to speak of ...
and the second one is similar to the first.

i'm more interested in a large common plenum in the center and long individual runners for each cylinder ...
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif) Andy
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Katmanken
post Aug 24 2005, 08:30 PM
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Sor Ahndie,

What I meant was these were kind of like the klingon battle cruiser with the vertical pipes, the small manifolds, the cross pipes and for the turbo, another big manifold in the center (see sketch on photo in link).

Also, the turbo shows welded construction of pipes that look like a reasonable size. I can't imagine that fabbing bent pipes would be too hard or too costly. Motorcycle exhaust pipes might be closer in size. Anybody in town make custom headers for bikes? They might have tubing and bending equipment in sizes closer to what you need than auto tailpipe sizes.

I have welded one end of a pipe, packed it with sand and welded the other end before bending. Sand prevents the tube from collapsing while you bend. Harbor freight sells tubing benders that would work with that.

Another thought. I drive a 2.1L wasserboxer vanagon. Wonder what diameter intake pipes that uses and what size plenum and throttle body. Looks just like a teener. I will try to measure tomorrow. Wnder if I have any batteries for the calipers?

Ken
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Trekkor
post Sep 4 2005, 09:48 PM
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Andy, news for you.

I spoke with Andy at the RR-PCA a/x yesterday about his set-up. He has a red 914 with and oversized FOUR as well. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/unsure.gif)

He runs a 2270cc with modified D-jet.
Volvo throttle body, "early" injectors, fuel pressure set to 35psi and a resistor wired in line to the CHT sensor.

His car runs perfect and sounds great. He has TTOD's at the a/x so it's for real. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)

I can get more info if you want it.
So much for D-jet on 2056's and smaller, eh?
He has it all figured out.

KT


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redshift
post Sep 4 2005, 09:54 PM
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We've (most) heard stories that it can be tuned to around 2,300cc capable.


M
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Aaron Cox
post Sep 4 2005, 09:57 PM
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trek, whats the point of the resitor in line with the CHT?? trick the ECU into boosting flow/fuel?
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Trekkor
post Sep 4 2005, 10:05 PM
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Must be...

just thinking, it works and no expensive fabbing required.

Did I mention how well it ran?

KT
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Mueller
post Sep 4 2005, 11:38 PM
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QUOTE (trekkor @ Sep 4 2005, 09:05 PM)
Must be...

just thinking, it works and no expensive fabbing required.

Did I mention how well it ran?

KT

yes, we know it works, however:

what is max RPM he runs the motor up to?

and more importanty...is there room for improvement??


just 'cause it works does not mean it's an ideal setup (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

with Andys new parts, it should very easy to swap back to the stock plenum and runners for comparison which I'm sure he'll be doing.... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smash.gif)

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Trekkor
post Sep 5 2005, 12:03 AM
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Yeah, and thousands of dollars later (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ph34r.gif)

What kind of RPM's are you looking for that D-jet can't handle?


KT
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Bleyseng
post Sep 5 2005, 01:01 AM
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above 4500rpms seems to be the problem with lean out. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ohmy.gif)
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SirAndy
post Sep 6 2005, 12:33 AM
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QUOTE (trekkor @ Sep 4 2005, 11:03 PM)
Yeah, and thousands of dollars later (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ph34r.gif)

what's wrong with spending money on a nice setup?

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif) Andy

PS: i honestly don't understand why everything you do has to be cheap to qualify as "good". don't make no sense to me ...
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Trekkor
post Sep 6 2005, 01:21 AM
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QUOTE
everything you do


Nope...

When it comes to things that are non-914, like my truck, tools and daily driver you couldn't be more wrong. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/dry.gif)

On my 914, I have put together a fun car that I enjoy. I believe it has a much higher market value than what I have put into it.

I'll never try and stop you from persuing your goal of building a reliable, and powerful F.I. system.
I won't insult you, either.

I'd prefer not to start an unfriendly exchange. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

Glad you are back!

KT
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Mueller
post Sep 6 2005, 01:45 AM
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QUOTE (trekkor @ Sep 4 2005, 11:03 PM)
Yeah, and thousands of dollars later (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ph34r.gif)


the stock 914 suspension works...why spend money on it??? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/screwy.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

Andy, I hope you are not in hurry for your axles, I leave on Thru. and will be gone until the 18th or 19th....

I can possibly work on them Wed. evening and leave them on the side of the house for you to pick up....
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Trekkor
post Sep 6 2005, 01:55 AM
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Fellas, I guess it all comes down to how you want to spend your money. By all means, do as you please.
I won't cut corners on any part of my car.
The receipts for my suspension should prove that...

ugghh, I got sucked into an argue-hi-jack...sorry.

KT
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