Whats wrong with our ignition switches?, What do we know? Options

[Superhawk996]

I have another problem I’ve been chasing. 1975 ign switch. The key/lock end that goes into the electrical part of the switch is worn.

I might be inclined to put about 1 tiny drop of 5 min JB weld on the tip just before you slide it into the “key” of the ignition switch housing. That would be enough to take out whatever wear and slop is in there.

The end that you’re saying is worn can be separated from the ignition cylinder housing with some work. Could also replace just that “key” tip piece if it’s that worn.

Disclaimer: I have never tried the JB Weld fix myself. Would need very very little drop of it and ensure that it doesn’t get enough in the rotating part of the ignition switch housing to “glue” anything else in there together.

[JeffBowlsby]

I have not had the electrical portion of the switch apart, but hypothesizing, if the end cover that cracks could be replaced by one of stronger material so that it would not crack, would that be a good improvement? Is the weakened end cover that cracks the ultimate failure of these, not ignoring the causations mentioned that cause the end cover to crack?

How about a pressed steel or maybe machined aluminum end cover?

Or maybe our view of this switch should be that its a maintenance replacement every MMM miles or YYY years due to age and wear. Like a timing belt.

[Dave97]

I tried jb weld, let it dry and then put it together. As you can see in the picture it also wore down. Really not sure of just replacing the tip.

[Superhawk996]

I tried jb weld, let it dry and then put it together. As you can see in the picture it also wore down. Really not sure of just replacing the tip.

Ahhh . . Now I see the JB weld residue. Bummer that didn’t do it. Wonder if they (whoever they is) are using too soft of a plastic on that “keyed” piece that engages that pin and rotates?

Alternately - cranking the key hard is a death spiral. But I’ve seen the instances where that “key” is wallowed out and it sort of forces you to try to twist harder.

Quite a few people don’t realize the switch is designed to only turn to start position once. It has to be returned to OFF to go back to Start position.

[Jgilliam914]

My car came with a relay added to the starter, a push button added under the dash, and a cracked ignition switch. During my rebuild, I removed all the extras, replaced the switch, and renewed some of the wiring. I have no problems with making the starter motor spin.

I have a similar project waiting for me in a month. I got the car that was using a master lock key to operate the electrics and a button to start it. I will be replacing the entire switch and fix the wiring

[Ishley]

I’ m on my 3rd switch in 2 yrs. The first one that came with car was cracked and hard to turn far enough to engage starter. 2nd on failed after 2 months… definitely a mechanical failure. The thing felt crunchy and it was not cracked on the outside. 3rd is working but I bought two extras. None of the suppliers will replace an electrical component. One advised me to stuff cardboard or match sticks to make it engage.

It’s only a matter of time before I replace another one I’m sure. My plan is to put a momentary switch below the relay board that has a wire connected to the yellow starter wire and 12v. Then in an emergency… I can switch the car on and reach under the board to start the car. At least I will be able to get home.

These switches are one of the weakest parts out there. I’ve ordered backups from 2 different suppliers and they’re all the same. I don’t see what other choice I have.

[orthobiz]

When I bought my 1974 1.8 in 2007, the ignition switch was faulty. Aftermarket switch did not work, Brad Mayeur found a NOS genuine switch. I took pics of both and posted them here:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=109146

Paul

[ConeDodger]

"Ignition switches are junk"

Regularly hear this and similar consternation.

I have continuously owned one or more 914s since 1998...think I have replaced only 1 ignition switches over that time, in one car. My current primary car I have had for over twenty years, still on the original switch as far as I know, I have not replaced it during my ownership.

None my cars have ever had the added relay although I'm not against it.

For those switches removed and in other key ignition switches I have opened up, what I see is part of the housing is cracked in similar locations. Maybe from years of torquing the key over? Not sure. I don't see melted housings (believe they are nylon), no smoke residue or anything out of line, just the cracked housing. Suspect the cracked housing causes some internal misalignment of the internal contacts...i.e. the switch goes bad and needs replacement.

I am thinking the problem is the switch housings that break, not anything to do with excessive current flow through the switch.

Educate me please.

Same.

I needed to replace only one time. I ended up doing it twice as the first one I bought was from that company that sells junk. The next one I replaced was from the Porsche dealership. The original was electrically good. It was just busted up so it worked inconsistently.

[chmillman]

Mine went out yesterday... There are a bunch of replacements from the "usual suppliers" here in the middle of Europe but none online directly in this country. The prices are all over the map:





No idea if it is the same part but just different prices, or really different parts with different qualities. I obviously won't buy the 8€ part. The people I trust the most in there are PartWorks (last image), but even they sell repro parts.

I called the local Porsche dealer in Lausanne here and he said he could get me one in 48 hours - CHF 35.- , so I ordered that and will see how it looks when it gets here... Might order one of the others from PartWorks or RosePassion (middle image) just to have a comparison.

[Ishley]

I've had several go out in 2 years...

The issues I have seen with the new ones is that something breaks inside the switch. The plastic is not strong enough. I am not seeing any electrical issue... it's a mechanical problem... and once it internally fails... it won't make connection to engage the starter.

I spoke to George at Auto Atlanta to complain about it and I mentioned how many I've seen on this forum and others all having the same problem. He told me he rarely sees any come back... he had numbers... and his data showed that indeed very few come back. I suspect that the issue is the cost of shipping. If you order from anyone now days it cost $10 to get it... another $10 to return it and if they ship it free... you wait 2 weeks to get it. I'm impatient... and honestly I'd just go to PMB or somewhere else...for a $16 switch. They at least ship faster then AA. I've ordered from several suppliers... and keep 2 on the shelf. They are all the same.

Since non of our suppliers are standing up and demanding better quality... and with only one manufacturer... nothing is going to change. Were doomed by a monopoly. I do plan to install a secondary push button switch in the engine bay as a a backup if I get stuck on the road.

[chmillman]

Local Porsche dealer just called and said my replacement switch is in, going to pick it up later on. Also orderderd another one from Partworks.de, should come in early next week - will be interesting to see if there is any difference.

While I'm in there, after having read through the various threads here, I think I will also install a relay. One of the advantages is that I can also add a pushbutton switch hidden somewhere that will start the engine in an emergency if the start contact fails again.

I drew the following out just to get the wiring straight in my mind... Look correct to you?



Just need to figure out the best place to cut/splice the yellow wire going to the starter and where to tap into the fat red 12V+ wire. Also how/where I'm going to mount the components.

[JeffBowlsby]

Avoid cutting any wires. Just remove the 50 wire from the ignition switch housing block and insert a new short wire with whatever splicing you need tom make.

It becomes a reversible condition and does not permanently alter or damage the original wiring.

[chmillman]

Thanks @JeffBowlsby , will do...

Here is the part supplied by the Porsche dealer at CHF 35.-

First the package:


And the part:


Made in China. One pin was slightly bent. Willing to bet that the part coming from Partworks will be exactly the same... Can't actually imagine that there are two different manufacturers of this part. Verdict next week.

[trojanhorsepower]

I'll add my experience. Hugh and I tried to start the car after months of not running (body work). The fuel pump would run, the engine crank, but wouldn't start. A few tests and I found I only had an ignition signal when I was not cranking the engine. Being to lazy to jump in and out of the car, I hooked up my remote start switch. Turn the key to run, hit the remote switch and she roared to life. I ohmed out the old switch (I think it is actually a replacement, not original....it looks new) and sure enough continuity was not there. No cracking in the case, again it looks new. I opened up the case and found the center contact was black like in the picture above. I replaced it with a Chinese Porsche OEM part and have been all good so far.

[TheCabinetmaker]

I have another problem I’ve been chasing. 1975 ign switch. The key/lock end that goes into the electrical part of the switch is worn. The key won’t turn the electrical part of the switch far enough to engage the start part of the switch because of the slop. In the beginning I thought is was the electrical part because everyone point to that, bought 3 of them. A new electrical part would work for a few months, but the plastic would wear just enough to not engage the starter.
The problem now is a finding a used lock assembly with a key. I’m going to try a vw lock assembly. I understand that I won’t be able to have the same key work the ign and other locks

I can fix that lock for you.

[DRPHIL914]

my 2cents worth and experience with my 15 years of ownership.

I drove the car for 8-9 years with no issue with ignition or starter until I had the motor out during repaint and reassemble and installation of the motor when the new motor was put in 3-4 years ago, and at that time i installed a new starter... thats when my issue began, but not realizing it at the time at first i thought it was a bad switch so i ordered in a few but also sourced a a very mint but used german OEM switch from a local shop down by savannah.. ended up having a bad solenoid with "new" O'Rielley's starter, that lasted a short time and solenoid went bad, so I put my original 50 year old Bosch starter back in the car and i have not had a problem again. I still have the used german starter switch in the iginition. that was 2 years or 3 years ago. Anyway at the time I decided better check that primary starter + cable and it was pretty bad, so that got replaced with new cable, but my other red + cables that go on that + battery terminal were not looking good either, so those got cleaned up re crimped and a all new + cable connector installed, ground straps etc. and yes all the other contacts and grounds were rechecked and cleaned etc.
AND i did put in the additional Ford solenoid as I did the other clean up, figuring if the ford solenoid only draws 3A not 12A this would be better anyway, but with the new cables ive had zero issues. I carry 2 spare starter switches anyway.

I think there are major issues with the cheap switches cracking and internally not making contact, but also the newer starters and solenoids are a clear failure point, and the old cables with corrosion that you cant see causing drop in conductivity.

I would recommend that these cables and grounds all be evaluated if you have not done so. I have a feeling my OEM Bosch starter will continue to be in service for many many more years to come, and that replacement i bought andhad to return, they gave me another one, but it can just sit in the box on the shelf, i doubt i will every use it.

Philip

[chmillman]

So got the Partworks switch in a couple of days ago, but didn't have time to post. The label says "Made by Partworks", but does not specify where...



Comparing the two parts, while the overall shape and concept is the same, there are a few details that differ. The Partworks surfaces are shinier - the Porsche-supplied part has a texture on them. And a closeup of the connector end shows that the pin numbers are different sizes and placements:
(Partworks part on the left, Porsche supplied part on the right)




So, the outer pastic parts at least were made in different molds. Which could mean two different manufacturers, maybe. That doesn't say anything about the quality of the plastic used in either, and there's no way of knowing what the contact parts look like inside... Interesting, kind of a tossup. I guess I'll put in the Porsche-supplied part to start with. [shrug]

[DRPHIL914]

So got the Partworks switch in a couple of days ago, but didn't have time to post. The label says "Made by Partworks", but does not specify where...



Comparing the two parts, while the overall shape and concept is the same, there are a few details that differ. The Partworks surfaces are shinier - the Porsche-supplied part has a texture on them. And a closeup of the connector end shows that the pin numbers are different sizes and placements:
(Partworks part on the left, Porsche supplied part on the right)




@chmillman

So, the outer pastic parts at least were made in different molds. Which could mean two different manufacturers, maybe. That doesn't say anything about the quality of the plastic used in either, and there's no way of knowing what the contact parts look like inside... Interesting, kind of a tossup. I guess I'll put in the Porsche-supplied part to start with. [shrug]

so one difference that I see is that the top picture the back pin on the bottom, sticks out further on the Partworks one than the Chinese made Porsche part, I would be inclined to use the Partworks one first.
Not sure iif that length of that black contact pin will matter or not, .....

Phil

[chmillman]

so one difference that I see is that the top picture the back pin on the bottom, sticks out further on the Partworks one than the Chinese made Porsche part, I would be inclined to use the Partworks one first.
Not sure iif that length of that black contact pin will matter or not, .....

Phil

You takling about this guy?


That's not a contact pin, that looks like where the the end of the spring inside is captured. True the spring end does stick out a tiny bit (about 0.9mm) on the Partworks part, where on the Porsche part it is inside a bit. Now that you mention it, however, the large 6.3mm contacts 50, 15 and X are about 1.3 mm longer on the Porsche part than on the Partworks part. The rest are more or less the same length on both. Don't think that really matters though.

[DRPHIL914]

so one difference that I see is that the top picture the back pin on the bottom, sticks out further on the Partworks one than the Chinese made Porsche part, I would be inclined to use the Partworks one first.
Not sure iif that length of that black contact pin will matter or not, .....

Phil

You takling about this guy?


That's not a contact pin, that looks like where the the end of the spring inside is captured. True the spring end does stick out a tiny bit (about 0.9mm) on the Partworks part, where on the Porsche part it is inside a bit. Now that you mention it, however, the large 6.3mm contacts 50, 15 and X are about 1.3 mm longer on the Porsche part than on the Partworks part. The rest are more or less the same length on both. Don't think that really matters though.

Ok, you're probably right, not of concern.