911 vs. 914, have you had the same experience? Options

[soloracer]

Jeroen: Interesting that you mention the 944. I have a 951 and a 914. I have not drove a 914, or 911 for that matter, and am curious as to how it would compare to the 951. Is the driving experience of a 951 and 914 similar?

[seanery]

Soloracer,
I have both and the two drive totally different. I prefer the 914 over the 951. With a 3.2 in it (someday) they pull better than the turbo boost kick-in-the-pants of the 951. I feel more connected in my 914s. The 951s are balanced and nice, fast cars, but the teener is a better 'drivers car'.

It's hard to explain, but easy to feel! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/boldblue.gif)

[redshift]

Up until the point where you totally lose control in a 914, you feel absolute confidence.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


Rails.... now about those stock seats..



M

[Jeroen]

Jeroen: Interesting that you mention the 944. I have a 951 and a 914. I have not drove a 914, or 911 for that matter, and am curious as to how it would compare to the 951. Is the driving experience of a 951 and 914 similar?

Even though the weight distribution in a 944/951 is similar to a 914, I think they're hugely different cars.

The 914 is a very nimble car. A street legal go-cart. Everything is very direct.
The 944 is obviously a heavy car, which you notice in every little detail of the driving experience. It just doesn't give you as much feedback as a 914 or a 911.

For my taste, the 944 is just a bit too modern, luxurious and civilized. For most people this would be a big plus, and therefore they are great cars. They're just very different.

The 944 is a very easy and forgiving car to drive fast.

I owned a 944S for a little while (2.5 16V 190bhp) and I found myself actually cruising the highway at the speedlimit (very comfy).
That's something I just can't seem to do in the 911. It's always asking to be driven faster and pushed harder.

944s would make a very good and comfy daily driver, and the latest versions (the S2 and turbo's) are very fast cars.
Just like the 914, they are very underrated cars...

cheers,

Jeroen

[SirAndy]

I also feel a lot more confident in the 914, even a near stock 914 I'd take corners at speeds that I'd hesitate or slowdown a tad bit in the 911.

i second that.
i was constantly on your (911) rear bumper during the hill climbing fun run in reno.
and i was driving my '93 jeep wrangler !!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Andy

[SirAndy]

conclusion? i need a 3.0 in my teener.

no. you actually need a 3.2L with FI (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Andy

[Don Wohlfarth]

I think stock 914's are very forgiving cars and are easy to drive close to the limit.
When you start "improving" the car is where it starts getting interesting. Changing the suspension will just make the car more fun to drive. It's when you start doubling or tripling the hp, race car suspension, full cage that ties in the suspension points, larger tires and wheels, bigger brakes, losing weight, that makes these cars a handful as they are nowhere near as forgiving as a stock car.
The stock car is a momentum car that allows you to carry more speed thru the turns to make up for the lack of power. When you start increasing the straight line speed with a large increase of power you have changed the equation so the car is no longer a momentum car as you have to drastically reduce your speed for the corner, start your turn in, and slowly apply power thru the turn.

[ninefourteener]

Interesting forum. I think this is one of the best ones I've read. I'm coming from a completely different perspective........ I'm not a racer. I drive my teener very "mildly", on nice, pretty days only. The top hasn't been on the car but maybe once all summer (got caught in a light shower).

Anyway.... I love the 914 because of the rarity factor, pure driving simplicity, open air, and.....well...... it's cool looking.

Honestly, I respect the history and performance of the 911, but I can't help but think "Yuppi mid-life crisis" when I see one....... Plus, EVERYONE has one... thats no fun.

I must admit, if I were to buy another P-car....... the one that seems to be attractindg the most interest in the 928. I've never driven one though. This forum has already talked about the 914, the 911, the 944, and the 951.

Can anyone give an educated opinion on the 928? I'm interested.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Curvie Roadlover]

This needs to go to the "classic thread" catagory

[seanery]

My buddy John has a 92 928GT. It's sweet, sounds nice, very clean.

BUT, I believe they had to drop the motor to change the 2 plugs nearest the firewall.
No thanks!!

[redshift]

928 is a supercar, just like they used to say.

It's as heavy as any other supercar, not nearly as many $$$ to keep up (although very expensive) and it gets less respect than 914s ever did.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

It launches like a 10,000,000hp dump truck, and it handles like a 10,000lb 914.. kinda.

It's a GT, it's kinda like some corvettes.. kind of a mix between mid-year/late vette, it's nice that they exist, but not the car for me.


M

[ninefourteener]

Yea, thats what scares me......... engine maintenance....... and cost of maintenance.

Again, it's just one of those you don't see very often, thats why I like them.... maybe I'll wait till I win the lottery (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Thanks!

[J P Stein]

I think stock 914's are very forgiving cars and are easy to drive close to the limit.
When you start "improving" the car is where it starts getting interesting. Changing the suspension will just make the car more fun to drive. It's when you start doubling or tripling the hp, race car suspension, full cage that ties in the suspension points, larger tires and wheels, bigger brakes, losing weight, that makes these cars a handful as they are nowhere near as forgiving as a stock car.
The stock car is a momentum car that allows you to carry more speed thru the turns to make up for the lack of power. When you start increasing the straight line speed with a large increase of power you have changed the equation so the car is no longer a momentum car as you have to drastically reduce your speed for the corner, start your turn in, and slowly apply power thru the turn.

I'm a bit at a loss as to what this all means.
In my experience....starting with a stock 914 with NO anti-roll bars & 95 hp, I found the STOCK 914 very unforgiving. It would spin like a top.....with no warning.

Various progressions in hp and moderate suspension/tire "improvements" cured much of this, tho I admit that at one point the thing was nearly undrivable.

In it's latest iteration, the car is much more forgiving.
It can be a handful (one must be carful with the loud pedal), but the speeds are much higher, both in a straight line and around corners. Tho my driving skills are marginal, I can make it push, oversteer, or be neutral....all in one corner. Recovery from lurid oversteer is now possible.

Like I said, my driving sux, but here's testimony from someone who can drive.

From the PP BBS & Doug Skinner:

Just finished co-driving the "Ulf" mobile this past weekend at a local SCCA 2 day auto-x. My god... what a surgical tool. JP's well developed 914-6 devoured the competition. Made my Kermie machine feel down right sluggish in comparison.

This was my 1st drive in a prepared 914-6. I never believed all the hype about 914-6's being able to drive circles around 911's, but I'm changing my thinking now. The "Ulf" mobile with it's 15x7 and 225 Hoosiers all 4 corners stuck like glue with the warmed over 2.7 providing rocket booster thrust coming out of the corners. The car was blisteringly (that's a real word isn't it?) fast. Sounds like I'm writing for Excellence or something...

I'm still somewhat shocked by how nimble and responsive JP's car was. The car is obviously light, ~2100 lbs or less, which helps a lot. Sticky auto-x tires make a big difference as well. My tires are likely over 4 years old, not so sticky anymore. The recent changes JP made to get rid of the understeer worked like a charm. I never had any problems with the car pushing, but instead was able to get the backend out bigtime coming around the big sweeper at the far end of the course. The brakes were much better than mine too. They never locked up on me once during the weekend; normally I'm fighting this a bit.

All-in-all, an exciting weekend. Thanks to JP for sharing the "Ulf" mobile with me. What a ride!


__________________

[Don Wohlfarth]

Have not driven many stock 14's but the one's I have driven handled fairly well. All of then could have benefited from something, replacing the rubber bushings, shocks, whatever. None of them would spin like a top without considerable work on my part. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
I think we're only fooling ourselves to take a 30 year old car and want to explore the limits when we have no clue what some of the previous owners have done to "improve" the car, everything from toe out in the rear, weight jacking with the adjusters, to a bent trailing arm. Sometimes you think it's mission impossible. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

[grantsfo]

i never appreciated what an agile porsche the 914 is until driving his 911. conclusion? i need a 3.0 in my teener.

better start saving.

....Or a Boxster?

[mr914]

I have both a 914 and '74 911.

The 911 is a little more comfortable for longer trips. The power is adequate. And most everyone recognizes the 911.

The teener, handles like a go cart, is more stable at 100 mph than the 911. But driving more than 4 hours at a strech is challenging.

The only downside to the teener is: You can't get a BJ in the back seat like a 911. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool_shades.gif)

Can't wait to get the 6 running....

[Mueller]

951 compared to a 914??

I've only driven one 951, I didn't like it, everything seemed too "heavy" ...
what I mean is every control for the driver needed more grunt to accomplish, the steering took too much effort as did the shifting and even the gas pedal was hard to push down....

The owner of the 951 took one drive in my 914 and started to have buyer’s remorse (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Now this was just driving around town, so I'm sure it's a different experience on the open road or the track. I'm betting the 951 would be way better on the freeway than the 914.

With an older 911 and 914, you know they are from the same manufacture in the way they drive and feel, but with the newer 911's (even my '91) and all the water-cooled cars you get a feeling that they are influenced or have been touched by another builder, such as Audi (I used to have an Audi Quattro)

[airsix]

My experience with stock vs. modified:

Stock my 914 was very forgiving, and I could see the limit coming from a long ways off. There weren't a lot of surprises when it came to losing traction - you had more than fair warning before it happened. I autocrossed my 914 stock and never spun and rarely hit a cone.

In it's current itteration the car is much faster around the cones (about 8 seconds per mile) but the line separating full control/out-of-control is much narrower than before. You can definitely tell when you get to the limit, but it's easier to accidently cross it than it was in the past. Now I'll counter this by saying the car is easier to drive now. What I mean is that while the limit is more sharply defined, the car is much easier to control when you are within the limits. Maybe this is what JP was saying? Anyway, I like the car much better the way it is now, than when it was stock.

-Ben M.

ps - ALL 914's are "momentum cars". The ones with more power just have more momentum. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)