914 V8, 351 to Porsche tranny Options

[MikeP]

My plan was to sell my 915 trans when I did this upgrade. Now that I see what is involved in finding a LSD box and getting the machining and rebuild done I can't bear to part with it. ZF makes a lot of sense. Ready to go right out of the box, solid linkage can be tricky though. They really take some fiddling to get just so.

[turbo914v8]

First off let me set you all straight regarding the ZF. I am currently putting over a 1000 HP and 1000 lbs of torque through my ZF.The install was straight forward, easy to do. The most challenging part of the install was the hydraulic clutch set up. There are a few 914 v8 ZF conversions here on this board, running over 400 hp. I can provide you with information regarding a large number of pantera's running in excess of 500 hp through the ZF. Its a common misconception that the ZF will not hold large amounts of power. I am not sure where this misconception started but lets end it here. The ZF is the way to go as it was designed to be used with a v8 thus the gearing is perfect out of the box, no monk eying around with flipping the R&P, and you get five gears with an option for a six speed conversion. Replacement parts are readily available as well as all different types of gear ratio's. If you can get a ZF you will not be sorry. Added bonus you will have a ton of help from those of us here that have already done it. Best of luck with your decision.

[Andyrew]

If it only cost as much as a Chevy turbo trani...

Hmph...

[Aaron Cox]

ive never seen linkage pics of a ZF in a 914

[jd74914]

QUOTE (914GT @ Sep 26 2005, 04:15 PM)

The ZF certainly does go for a chunk of change. More expensive than what many (most?) 914s go for.

but a converted 915, 916, or 930 box would also go for more than most teeners (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/huh.gif) maybe you need it if you like burnouts (i know a guy with a pantera that lites up his tires every time out) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif)

[Aaron Cox]

QUOTE (jd74914 @ Sep 26 2005, 02:20 PM)

QUOTE (914GT @ Sep 26 2005, 04:15 PM) The ZF certainly does go for a chunk of change.  More expensive than what many (most?) 914s go for. but a converted 915, 916, or 930 box would also go for more than most teeners (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/huh.gif) maybe you need it if you like burnouts (i know a guy with a pantera that lites up his tires every time out) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif)

a 916 is a factory converted 915. IIRC 2 versions availaible one had an integral pump and was setup with a cooler...

[ArtechnikA]

QUOTE (turbo914v8 @ Sep 26 2005, 04:19 PM)

I am currently putting over a 1000 HP and 1000 lbs of torque through my ZF....

again with these numbers...

but there are no pictures.
there are no dyno sheets.

remind me again why you believe these numbers?

[914GT]

Sorry, I deleted that post when I saw someone already posted the link to ebay. I can do burnouts just fine with my 901 but it's not necessary. Part throttle in 2nd gear is plenty fun and saves tires and gas ... and fascinates the kids in their little 'rice burners'.

[jd74914]

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Sep 26 2005, 04:36 PM)

QUOTE (jd74914 @ Sep 26 2005, 02:20 PM) QUOTE (914GT @ Sep 26 2005, 04:15 PM) The ZF certainly does go for a chunk of change.  More expensive than what many (most?) 914s go for. but a converted 915, 916, or 930 box would also go for more than most teeners (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/huh.gif) maybe you need it if you like burnouts (i know a guy with a pantera that lites up his tires every time out) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif) a 916 is a factory converted 915. IIRC 2 versions availaible one had an integral pump and was setup with a cooler...

I know that (I meant that the purchase price of one is many $$$$)

[jd74914]

QUOTE (ArtechnikA @ Sep 26 2005, 04:38 PM)

QUOTE (turbo914v8 @ Sep 26 2005, 04:19 PM) I am currently putting over a 1000 HP and 1000 lbs of torque through my ZF.... again with these numbers... but there are no pictures. there are no dyno sheets. remind me again why you believe these numbers?

I kinda would like to know the specs on the engine



So turbo914v8 whats with your engine?

[MikeP]

Maybe a ZF will hold the power. I don't know. I do know that I have hours of time in a car with a DYNO proven 700hp and a 930 box that gets the shit kicked out of it by the 10" slicks it runs and it just keeps coming back for more. When I made my decision there were no ZF cars running in my area and the owners I spoke to were in the 400-500 hp range. The only two cars I've ever seen, yes I have the pictures, run 700+hp both have 930 boxes in them. As far as I can tell the only thing to be concerned about with the 930 for extremely high hp applications is the quality of the welding that is done when the ring is flipped. But like I said before ZF is probably actually going to be cheaper when you factor in all of the bs that goes with the 930 conversion. If I could have gotten a ride in a ZF car and see some actual hp numbers I probably would have gone that way. Maybe on the next one .......right.

[Aaron Cox]

no way to mount a 930 upside down?

save *SOME* hassle.... buty introduces others... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/screwy.gif)

[MikeP]

it has been done, there are some issues with oiling but not too many.

[neo914-6]

QUOTE (MikeP @ Sep 26 2005, 11:41 AM)

A ZF might actually be cheaper in the long run. Current tally on my 930: $3k trans $2k machining to flip the ring $2.2k shipping, sliders, new synchros, gaskets, etc It adds up fast. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/sad.gif) In the end you'll have a better trans with the 930 though, higher tourque capability etc. A ZF is the way to go if you plan on keeping it under 450hp though. Also consider the Mendeola.

Mike,

You haven't even listed the mounts, shifter, clutch, flywheel, and adapter plate! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) Are you getting LSD?

[Mueller]

QUOTE (MikeP @ Sep 26 2005, 02:53 PM)

Maybe a ZF will hold the power. I don't know. I do know that I have hours of time in a car with a DYNO proven 700hp and a 930 box that gets the shit kicked out of it by the 10" slicks it runs and it just keeps coming back for more.

I thought he twisted the input shaft on that gear box doing a dyno run (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/burnout.gif) ...I still cannot believe I have yet to go for ride in that car...one of these days (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

[MikeP]

Are you thinking of the new twin turbo one? I don't know what is going on with that one but I do know that it DYNO'd at 1200 before it shipped to him. I wouldn't be surprised if he did twist that one up.

Felix, yup 84% LSD (cause I drive like an ahole) The cost of the 930 case I bought was higher because of the LSD. You can get them without for 2400ish IF YOU CAN FIND THEM. I didn't list clutch and linkage costs because A. they are too painfull to put in print, and B. I figure that is apples to apples for any trans upgrade. I was throwing out figures just for the built box. Don't even ask about the wheels tires and brakes. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/icon8.gif)

[neo914-6]

Wow this thread has changed to transaxle wars, watch out or will be banned like religion and politics topics... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)

I've been researching mid-price ($3-4k), mid-range (300-400hp) transaxles used successfully for mid-engine replicars and race cars. There are cheaper options to the ZF and 930 but each has it's drawbacks in terms of availability, parts and service support. Additionally they'd have to be a significant improvement to the 901 which seems to hold up to 300 and up to 400hp if in good working or rebuilt condition and well respected. One of these days I'll post the data.

For those who want to push the car, the 930 makes the most sense until a performance transaxle supplier (i.e. Mendeola) markets a street version for under $10k. Rebuilt RBT ZF's are strong but like the 914, they are "vintage" engineering. The two local guys running ZFs have them because they got them "cheap" many years ago. If you can find one for under $6k that's considered a bargain these days...

[Rider914]

I want this box! Full throttle clutchless upshifts.

http://www.hewland.com/svga/productrange/nlt.htm

Costs more than twice my car. . . (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/sad.gif)

[turbo914v8]

QUOTE (jd74914 @ Sep 26 2005, 02:43 PM)

QUOTE (ArtechnikA @ Sep 26 2005, 04:38 PM) QUOTE (turbo914v8 @ Sep 26 2005, 04:19 PM) I am currently putting over a 1000 HP and 1000 lbs of torque through my ZF.... again with these numbers... but there are no pictures. there are no dyno sheets. remind me again why you believe these numbers? I kinda would like to know the specs on the engine So turbo914v8 whats with your engine?

I don’t mind sharing information. I believe these numbers because that’s what the dyno report says. Even if I post pictures unless you see if for your self you wont believe it. This summer I snapped the chasse in half, too much torque. I am in the process of rebuilding this time with a proper cage. I really don’t know what I was thinking. I figured I would be able to get away with seem welding and chasse strengthening kits. Obviously it did not work. We just had our second child so for the moment work on the 914 has halted. When I start work on it again I will document the progress here. There will be lots of pictures in my Blog at that time.

Engine specs: Nascar bowtie block .03 over = 355ci v8

Building a 1000 Hp V8 is not hard. First off you will need to use forced induction. My choice of weapon for this is a custom-built twin turbo system designed and built by me to fit in the 914. You will need at least 30 psi so an intercooler is a must. Fuel management is critical so selecting a good FI system is also important. I chose Electromotive. Three points need to be address with regards to the engine. The reciprocating assembly needs to be strong (Crank, connection rods, pistons). Low compression is a must. I am using Ross reverse dome floating pistons. Under 30 psi you have to make sure that the cylinders will seal. To combat this problem I had my block "O" ringed and I am using a coated copper head gasket. That's it. You don’t even have to port the heads, however I did because I'm greedy. The magic comes from the cam grind. I had a really smart friend figure that one out for me, but there are lost of cams available that will do the trick. I have a small circle of friends who experiment with turbo systems. I have seen these guys take a stock Chevy v8 with 200km +, Turbo charge it using parts from the junkyard and make well over 600 hp. I got my inspiration from those guys. I would have to agree with comments made earlier regarding the high cost of the ZF box. I also got mine very cheep that was a big factor in using it. Another added advantage with the ZF box is that you get to use the big clutch packages that are readily available from many sources.

[ArtechnikA]

QUOTE (turbo914v8 @ Sep 27 2005, 10:26 AM)

I believe these numbers because that’s what the dyno report says.

just post that.