Boxster Options

[Dave_Darling]

QUOTE (Mueller @ Oct 13 2005, 08:59 AM)

QUOTE (nebreitling @ Oct 13 2005, 08:55 AM) ain't no boxster going to be $7k unless it's beat. please show me a $7K Boxster that is not a salvage title

I know of some Louisiana cars.... Give me a couple of months, and they won't have salvage titles anymore. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/lol2.gif)

New cars are shitty investments. They take something like a 20%-30% hit the instant they drive off the lot!! And they just keep on depreciating, year after year, until they bottom out. The 914 seems to have finally gotten to that point, and the prices are now rising. Slowly. This group is one of the reasons why--it gets people fired up about 914s, helps them keep them on the road, and helps improve them and make them more reliable!

How low will the Boxters go? It's tough to say. Perhaps $7K is the bottom, and they'll get there in another few years. Perhaps people will decide that they're just about worthless--but it'll take another 20 years for them to get to that point. Perhaps the new "Spec Boxster" series will take off like gangbusters and demand will push the prices back up over $15K. The market is a very fickle thing for expensive toys like sports cars....

--DD

[horizontally-opposed]

You'll occasionally seeing early 1997/8 Boxster 2.5s in the $12-15K range...but they're usually rough!

I bought a 1999 car with 60,000 miles a year ago for $17,500 after selling my 2003 WRX with 30,000 miles for $19,200. Loved the Subie, but don't regret the move. There just isn't anything like a Porsche. Period.

Of course, I had to do a $1200 60K service, it needed four tires, an alignment, and then it has been motoring bliss ever since.

Well, except for a MAF that went bad for $250 or so along with a failed radiator coolant expansion tank (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ar15.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ar15.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ar15.gif) at a pricey $250~ for the part and it is a NIGHTMARE to get to, so it's really a $500 job.

It needs a 75K service now and that's $500 at the dealer (for oil, filter, and cabin filter plus a thorough screwing for me). An independant will do all the above for about $300.

Is it expensive to keep up? Compared to a 914 that you can work on yourself, yes. But then it's not 30 years old, so I am not worrying about rust, brake lines, fuel lines, wiring, etc. etc. And you've got to compare the maintenance to, say, a Nissan 300ZX or new 350Z. Then it's not SO bad.

It's hard for me to see these cars bottom out much further than they have already. 200+ hp, four piston brake calipers at all four corners, great A/C, a full power top, four airbags 1998 and later), and stellar driving dynamics. All for 20-25 year old 911 SC money. What's not to like? I can't imagine a better two-seat pick for this kind of money as a daily...

pete

[horizontally-opposed]

If this works, this is for you Mueller, finally got some pics of the 18x10s in the rear. Excuse the boxes and open trunks, was simulating RoW M030 suspension to see if it was low enough for my liking...

pete

[horizontally-opposed]

'nuther

[horizontally-opposed]

one more

[johnmhudson111]

Here is one for $9k Boxster cheaper than a number of 914s I have seen.

[horizontally-opposed]

No matter how bad that thing is -- unless it's been hit hard -- that is a STEAL!

For $30K or so, you could have a Boxster with a 300-horse 996 motor, 18s, M030 RoW suspension, big brakes, and a LOT of speed -- all in something that would be a joy to drive day in and out while beating up on $75,000+ 997s...

These really are the 914s of today.

pete

[Mueller]

thanks Pete...I like your method of "lowering" the car (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif)

[grantsfo]

If you can find a Boxster for under $10K that hasnt been run into a pole its a deal.

[Andyrew]

I would trade my dads 944 t for a boxster...

And at those prices....

I could!!!!!

Good 944 turbo's are 12k...

hmm

If I save some money, I'd get one.... seriously.

[Brando]

Why Boxsters depreciate so quickly.

1) They are an "entry level" Porsche. We all know what that means.
(think 914, 924, 944, etc)
2) They are not made in Porsche's factories (Sweden & Finland)
3) Intentional depreciation by Porsche's valuation of the car over time (Blue book values).
4) Cheaper than a same-year 911 initially, just as expensive to maintain.
5) It's easier to drive it into the ground (100k+ miles in less than 10 years?!) and pawn it off for a few grand than maintain it.
6) Too damn heavy
7) Anemic flat-six by Porsche's standards today.

And the winner...

8) Would out-handle a same-year 911 if it had the same powerplant.

Think of the Boxster as a modern-day 914. Except Porsche learned from it's mistake with the 914-6. It did not produce a mid-engined car that could exceed the 911's reputation. If the 986 were lighter and had a 280bhp motor it could easily give a 993 or a 996 a run for it's money. Now, a turbocharged 3-litre 986? Fiberglass or carbon-fibre body? You'll leave 911's standing still.

[Andyrew]

Think cayenne tt engine....


then think C/F body....


wait, thats the Carrera gt...

Ok, cayenne tt in the 911, and the 3.8 in the boxster with a turbo model in the cayman...



Yup... THats my prediction of 5 years...

[grantsfo]

QUOTE (Brando @ Oct 13 2005, 09:44 PM)

Why Boxsters depreciate so quickly. 1) They are an "entry level" Porsche. We all know what that means. (think 914, 924, 944, etc) 2) They are not made in Porsche's factories (Sweden & Finland) 3) Intentional depreciation by Porsche's valuation of the car over time (Blue book values). 4) Cheaper than a same-year 911 initially, just as expensive to maintain. 5) It's easier to drive it into the ground (100k+ miles in less than 10 years?!) and pawn it off for a few grand than maintain it. 6) Too damn heavy 7) Anemic flat-six by Porsche's standards today. And the winner... 8) Would out-handle a same-year 911 if it had the same powerplant. Think of the Boxster as a modern-day 914. Except Porsche learned from it's mistake with the 914-6. It did not produce a mid-engined car that could exceed the 911's reputation. If the 986 were lighter and had a 280bhp motor it could easily give a 993 or a 996 a run for it's money. Now, a turbocharged 3-litre 986? Fiberglass or carbon-fibre body? You'll leave 911's standing still.

Except Boxster is much closer to 911 than 944 or 914 were in terms of power and refinement. Not to mention the fact they come with a sweet 6 cylinder power plant. Oh yeah its a convetible too.

Expensive to maintain? I havent run into those "expenses" yet with mine.

[Brando]

QUOTE (grantsfo @ Oct 13 2005, 10:03 PM)

Except Boxster is much closer to 911 than 944 or 914 were in terms of power and refinement.  Not to mention the fact they come with a sweet 6 cylinder power plant.  Oh yeah its a convetible too.

That is very true. They share the same styling as the 996, a better suspension system an yes, a 6cyl. Engine. All very good but it also has the potential to be a 911-bashing ride. I'm saying from Porsche's standpoint, they want the Boxster to be viewed as the 'little brother' to the 911. Not as much power, not as much top speed so it can't compete with a 911 of it's time. See what I'm saying?

They are great cars, when taken care of. If I did come across one for 911SC prices I'd be all over it.

QUOTE

Expensive to maintain?  I havent run into those "expenses" yet with mine.

I've seen $15k boxsters come into the shop.

Quickly thereafter they are $20k boxsters (for the new owner).

Input shaft snapped? $OUCH$
Convertible top motors dead? $DOUBLEOUCH$
Electrical woes? $$!
Drove it too hard without regular service intervals? $NEW$ $ENGINE$

This is just within the last 4 months.

Although, most of the Boxsters I have worked on only needed oil changes, tranny fluid changes, brakes and maybe a smog cert. They all have had less than 60k miles though. Take good care of your car, and you'll never see expenses like those. And you'll enjoy the car much more when you see your yearly maintainance doesn't equal the current market value of the car (like most other "entry level" Porsches).

[horizontally-opposed]

Andrew,

I was just thinking it's too bad Boxsters are too new for smog exemption, cause an SBC would probably fit in quite nicely if one could forego the convertible top and use a factory hardtop for rainy days...

...but then I thought, why not get a 1998-99 986 with a blown motor (how cheap would THAT be?!?) and add a late-model Chevy V8 out of a Camaro or Vette with all the smog gear? In some ways, that would be a better way to spend $10K than fixing a terminal RMS motor.

Think of it, all the radiators and plumbing are already there. And I suspect the Chevy motor would be an interesting comparison in terms of power, weight, and fuel economy. Renegade should really start making a V8 adaptor for the 986S transmission...

pete

[horizontally-opposed]

O hyeah, OBD II would be a nightmare, wouldn't it? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/headbang.gif)

Oh well, maybe the days of motor swaps are done and gone...

pete

[ArtechnikA]

QUOTE (horizontally-opposed @ Oct 14 2005, 12:25 PM)

O hyeah, OBD II would be a nightmare, wouldn't it?

why?

it's just a computer protocol, and one for which all the specifications are available to anyone. (i've got a copy here somewhere...) with way less CPU power than it takes to run a MegaSquirt you could make the OBD-II data stream say anything you'd like.

not many technicians know anything more about OBD-II systems than where to find the plug...

the hardest part of such a system for a Boxster would probably be deciding whether to use ISO-9141-2 or SAE J1850-VPW.

(not that anyone would produce an "OBD-II like" system that would produce intentionally inaccurate results...)

[Andyrew]

Pete, I've thought of that as well..

And so has Brad Roberts....


You got the money? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)

[horizontally-opposed]

I keep trying to convince my wife that mortgages are overrated... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

So no, I don't got the money. I picked the wrong career for that. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/driving.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/type.gif)

Most people pay to have fun in cars. I get paid to have fun in cars -- just not much. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)

Nice to hear the OBD II interface would be less of a nightmare than I thought. I knew it was possible in the way that anything is *possible* but had reservations due to how imbedded some of the modern management systems have become... PSM, for instance, is apparently a real pain to get out of a car, if it's even possible. The Germans say PASM would present similar issues.

But damn if a 400-horse motor out of a wrecked C6 Corvette isn't an appealing thought in a Boxster. It costs $10-15K to put a 3.4 996 motor in, so why not put that toward a V8 if outright performance is your bag. And while I'd personally probably still go for the 3.4, this idea has some serious legs. Can you imagine the faces of 993, 996, 996TT, and 997 owners at the track after getting waxed by a plain-looking Boxster?

I suspect that, at those power levels, the 986's rear frame strength would become the weak link, however. Kinda like another mid-engine Porsche we know...

pete

[horizontally-opposed]

Oh yeah, and...

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/hijacked.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/hijacked.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/hijacked.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/hijacked.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/hijacked.gif)

(I always wanted to use one-a those.)