Boxster Options

[neo914-6]

QUOTE (horizontally-opposed @ Oct 14 2005, 10:06 AM)

Oh yeah, and... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/hijacked.gif)  :hijacked:  :hijacked:  :hijacked:  :hijacked: (I always wanted to use one-a those.)

No (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/hijacked.gif) here, the topic was "Boxster" so anything goes...

A V8 conversion would be impressive but will have the same additional costs as for the 914:
-crate engine LS7 ~$12-$17k
-a transaxle that will hold up to 300-400 torque. Ajracer has a Boxster 5 speed on his LT1 but little usage so far. It will probably last with respect or be disposable @$1500 used. $5k-10k to adapt a G50.
-the dual radiators may not be sufficient to cool a V8 and used are not cheap in my experience. add $1500 for used replacements, more for larger sizes, or a comparable Ron Davis/Renegade type
-upgrade brakes $
-chassis strengthening $
-suspension upgrades $

My point is unless you install a mild V8, costs exponentially increase. That's how a NASCAR engined 914 costs $100k++.

At least you shouldn't have to deal with rust and you'll have all the modern conveniences! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

[bd1308]

914s are still more fun.

[horizontally-opposed]

QUOTE (neo914-6 @ Oct 14 2005, 11:39 AM)

No (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/hijacked.gif) here, the topic was "Boxster" so anything goes... -the dual radiators may not be sufficient to cool a V8 and used are not cheap in my experience. -upgrade brakes $ -chassis strengthening $ -suspension upgrades $

I still say hijacked as this started out as a used Boxster thing and has turned into a V8 Boxster thread, but agree the title has lots o' leeway! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

-Radiators should be gud for a decent V8, as they're good for a 3.4, 3.6, and 3.8-liter 996/997 engines with 296-355 hp. Need to check part numbers, but I believe at least the first two iterations used the same coolers.

-Moreover, a third central radiator can be easily added with all factory parts, for not much money.

-Good points on the tranny, will be curious to see what happens with that SBC 914

-Brakes are pretty good already, but the fronts would be a weak link with that power level. Brembos are nice but (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/screwy.gif) money, so the Stoptech setup for the 996 might be the way to go at two grand or so -- just need to check caliper piston sizes for 986 rears vs. 996 rears, but I've been *told* they're very similar.

-Suspension is one of those black holes, but I think RoW M030 at only $1K for shocks, springs, and bars would be a good starting place. And any stock Boxster will deal with 400 hp better than a 914 will in terms of what you're starting out with....

-So chassis work is the big ??? What would be needed, and, when you do it, would it end up breaking other things?

As for 914s being more fun, I *think* I agree when it comes to stock vs. stock on the right day and the right road. Or maybe it's just a different kind of fun?

With a 400-horse V8 installed, I'd rather have a Boxster designed to have 200-300 hp as a platform than a 914 designed to have 70-110 hp as a platform.

pete

[bd1308]

i enjoy things....

keep it going.

we'll see where this ends up.

[horizontally-opposed]

Oh yeah, and you can get 245s up front (or even 265s with some finaggling) and 285s in back under the stock fenders...

[Andyrew]

The boxster chassi can easily be fixed...

Just put in a targa bar! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)

I havent heard anything with the chassi, but if it did start to go caput, future v8 boxster owners would know where to stiffen...

Radiator.. A third radiator would probably help.... If that didnt do it, a custom assembly would definately cool the poor sucker.

Your complaining about the boxster brakes? lol Its already got abs... Putting pads on it and you'll be done. your only adding ~ 100 lbs.

Suspension... Who wants factory suspension anyways? Besides, it would just lower the car a tiny bit on factory... Like Me sitting in the drivers seat vs my dad (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif) (jk dad)

265's up front, 315's in back (yes, some john kelly would be going into this boxster...) and kabam!!!(iff you really needed it, in that case, suspension and all that jaz would be done as well)

Only problem I see is possible fitment(will that darn thing fit?), and trani adapting.

[ArtechnikA]

QUOTE (horizontally-opposed @ Oct 14 2005, 04:07 PM)

With a 400-horse V8 installed, I'd rather have a Boxster designed to have 200-300 hp as a platform than a 914 designed to have 70-110 hp as a platform.

the 986/996 chassis is *much* stiffer than anything that came before it.

the 914 chassis was good for at least the 210HP the GT's put out. the problem with the GT's was the flex-induced metal fatigue as the cars were kept in service long after they were expected to be, and the increasingly heavy spring rates needed to work with the increasingly wide and incrceasingly sticky tires. by the time you're running 14" rear slicks you are *WAY* past the original load factors. this isn't a factor of power, it's a factor of grip. (although without enough power, grip alone isn't a factor, because the loads are less...)

[horizontally-opposed]

Yes, yes, I know 914s chassis broke apart and/or failed with time and miles due to too much suspension loading -- which came on due to the wider tires, stiffer suspension, etc., etc. meant to deal with added power.

Porsche had a finite number of races they felt a 914 chassis was good for before it should be thrown away. I can't remember where I read what that number was, but it was depressingly low. Of course, "thrown away" meant sell to a privateer back then, just as it did with all of the works cars that came before the 914.

What I am getting at with the "I'd rather start with a Boxster" idea is that Porsche starts with a platform that's designed as the basis for a system of parts. The system of parts the 914 was originally designed for would have far less performance than what many of us now have in the cars. Some have gone to the trouble of dealing with that, some haven't. But I would certainly want to in a 400-horse 914!

The systems intended for the Boxster are just that much further along...as is the chassis. But the guys at Smart Racing have seen real issues with rear alignment going out of spec on Boxsters that are tracked with slicks -- even when they're driven cleanly.

Apparently, they had to PortaPower one rear end back into shape, but this is only a RUMOR and needs substantiation.

[Mueller]

QUOTE

the 986/996 chassis is *much* stiffer than anything that came before it.

I think the Boxster chassis is one of the stiffest chassis out, even better than many new cars with full/rigid roofs

[lapuwali]

I guess I'm missing the whole point of a V8 Boxster. One, it would be difficult to get smogged in many states. Two, you're only adding weight to an already heavy car. More power helps, but less weight with equal power can be just as fast, doesn't present the smog problem, and is easier on tires.

I'd be a lot more interested in seeing how much weight you could trim off a Boxster with the stock drivetrain in place. I've seen figures of 300-400lbs w/o really gutting the thing. But I'd wonder how much farther you could go. Gut the interior, remove all of those electric motors, CF lids, trim out everything that's even remotely optional, including the top and the related stuff (sunshine only car). 500lbs? 1000lbs? Get an early 2.5 down to 2000lbs and you'd end up with pretty neat car.

[Andyrew]

The thought of the v8 boxster is the same thought for the sbc 928.

Yes, its considered erm... stupid? theres a betta word for it..

But If the engine is going to go, and your going to spend 10k replacing or whatnot... Why not go with an engine with more reliability, more power, and more potential? An all aluminum sbc can weigh very near the boxster engine...

chevy reliability, in a porsche style...

It would be the same reason that 914 guys put v8's in the 914... cost of repair and more power... (at least thats what I did mine for..)

anyone got any weight numbers on a boxster engine dry?

[lapuwali]

Throwing an SBC into a 914 costs about the same as throwing in almost any other engine, and the stock power on a 914 is inadequate, so I can see the point of a V8 914. There are also no smog problems (as a practical matter, if not a strictly legal one). I can better see the point of a Subaru conversion, since 10lbs/hp seems adequate to me, and reaching that level with a turbo Soob is pretty easy.

The Boxster, however, already has a powerplant that should be able to make 200hp or more. I understand replacement engines are not at all expensive, considering (less than what Felix quoted for a crate motor above). Less weight seems to be more what the Boxster really needs, IMHO.

As far as an SBC 928 goes, well...

[horizontally-opposed]

Interesting thing about the 986 chassis is that the German engineers were DEEPLY impressed by the Honda S2000 chassis, which they admitted was considerably stiffer than the Boxster chassis. And they RARELY give other manufacturers props with the press around to hear it.

The 986 Boxster chassis is very, very good for an open car, but the rear cowl area back is its weak point. You can tell this in an M030 car with 18s on a rough back road. I don't have any idea, however, on what this would mean with a lot more power, bigger tires, etc, etc.

I don't think of early 986s as being heavy, nor any of the modern Porsches for that matter. It's only in the context of 914s and really early 911s that they seem heavy. In absolute terms, sure 2750-2850 pounds isn't exactly light. But then a 911 SC coupe with a flat six with similar power and a LOT less content only weighs 150-pounds less. And just look at all the gear the modern cars (must) have packed in 'em (despite being physically bigger than a 914 the Boxster has less interior and trunk space than a 914) and how much better their structures are now.

I think you can drop about 80-100 pounds by switching to GT3 buckets, the Dansk muffler, CF lids front and rear without losing any of the functionality. Sadly, this would cost more than $4,000 to do so. Wohler says complete S/C delete is worth 55 pounds and European 986s came standard without it, so it's an easy thing to do. Get rid of the stock doors, do plexi side windows with straps, dump the trunk trim, spare tire, and you'd probably lose a solid 150-200 pounds -- while keeping the heavy power top. The factory aluminum hardtop weighs something like 45-55 pounds fully trimmed, so adding that and deleting the softtop and all its mechanicals might net 60-90 pounds (that's a pure shot in the dark.

I think the 2750 number bandied about is for the base Euro model with no A/C, so we'll throw that out and subtract between 290-390 pounds for a (super guesstimated) curb weight of 2,360-2,460 pounds. And you're right, that would be big fun even with just the stock 2.5. Now imagine it with a 296-hp 3.4 or a 300-400 horse SBC.

For all the critics of the late-model cars, you have to look at their competition. Aston Martin's new 911 fighter uses all kinds of exotic aluminum alloys and CF and Kevlar for its body and still weighs 250-400~ pounds more than a 997 coupe that's all steel.

The days of 2000-pound cars are long gone with the notable exceptions of the Elise and dearly departed MR2 Spyder (let the flaming begin!).

Which is what makes a 914 so GREAT!!!! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif)

pete

[i love porsche]

QUOTE (synthesisdv @ Oct 13 2005, 07:44 AM)

QUOTE (i love porsche @ Oct 13 2005, 10:41 AM) yeah...a boxster for around 10k  is a great deal.... the average bottom is around 15k i think the 2.5 is around 220 hp....its enough for me, im thinking of maybe getting one once im out of college....or we will see how the cayman is priced.... the cayman s starts at $58g, add another $8g for the pccb brakes.

im talking about the cayman, not the cayman S...if i had to guess id say 50k new when they come out

[Mueller]

QUOTE

in KY, I could probably find one in the mid-7s $.

I'm still waiting to see this mid-$7,000 Boxster (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

[neo914-6]

QUOTE (horizontally-opposed @ Oct 14 2005, 02:09 PM)

What I am getting at with the "I'd rather start with a Boxster" idea is that Porsche starts with a platform that's designed as the basis for a system of parts. The system of parts the 914 was originally designed for would have far less performance than what many of us now have in the cars. Some have gone to the trouble of dealing with that, some haven't. But I would certainly want to in a 400-horse 914! The systems intended for the Boxster are just that much further along...as is the chassis.

The problem with manufacturers platforms is that once they are defined, it's difficult to cross market them. Would Porsche design an entry level car to outperform their upscale cars? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif) Upgrading is left to the aftermarket (SEMA) or resourcefull individuals.

I have no doubt someone will build a V8 Boxster but so far no one is willing to eat the costs for proper development. Maybe a $7k roller will prompt the conversion...

[Brando]

I would like to see a boxster that has a curb weight of 2200lbs. It would probably have quite a bit more acceleration than a stock boxster.

Someone brought up the fatigue of the 914 chassis over time...

Are there not things you can do to strengthen the body? Weld panels together instead of spot-welding? re-inforcing with sheet metal?

My favorite... re-produce one full chassis in carbon fibre or aluminum (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)