type 4 turbo guys-, what turbo did you pick and why- Options

[airsix]

QUOTE (ottox914 @ Oct 31 2005, 05:08 AM)

Ben- can you have a look at your turbo and see if the compressor and turbine housings have the A/R cast into them? I'd be interested to know that relationship.

I'll take a look and report back.
-Ben M.

[Mark Henry]

QUOTE (agrump @ Oct 31 2005, 12:25 PM)

Hey Jake, Will there be a heater box version of the exhaust?  Is this meant to be a daily driver type of upgrade or more of a performance damn the torpedoes thing? Thanks, Dean

Jake you’re going to run into this question all the time.

I know you don't like heater boxes, but there is many a guy who doesn't want give up their heat.
I may have a solution. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

Also you will sell more systems if you have a stock cooling system version. High-end customers can do the DTM version.

[agrump]

Mark, I am afraid you are right about the heat. I think the target price of $5500 is great for a well designed fuel system + cooling system + turbo system and proven horsepower but I would not give up my heating/defrosting system for it. Maybe I'm gettting to old, I use to ride my motorcycle the entire winter, then again maybe I'm just geting smarter.

[andys]

I fabricated heater boxes for my turbo 914 (Crown turbo kit) some 30 years ago. A little sheet metal brazed together, and it worked very well. Yeah, I too wanted the heater.

Andys

[Jake Raby]

A heater box pretty much isn't even a consideration at this point.. The design of the header may make it possible, but we are not working toward it.

I don't do much for full race cars, I prefer to create dual purpose engines/components that are very happy on the street, so this system is realy being researched primarily FOR THE STREET....

Every version MUST use the DTM for cooling, the entire turbo arrangement is being built with it as an integral component. The stock cooling system will limit possibilities of performance as well as place PHYSICAL limitations on the entire system. The DTM will allow the intercooler to be perfectly placed as well as the Turbo placed out of the engine bay all while creating an engine that cools superbly and simply.

The DTM however, is not the limiting factor on the heater box addition as I have heater ducts that can be added to any DTM easily. The limiting factor is getting everything to fit *the smart way* while providing a clean arrangement that does it's damn job!

Making a system thats less than a full arrangement that allows all the old stuff to be romved and scrapped creates nothing for me except headaches when guys create an issue for themselves....

I'm all about "Doing it all the way or not at all"... And in this instance that means everything other than your longblock can go into the dumpster, bolt on my arrangement and haul ass.... And if you want heat I ****might*** be able to make it work, but if it increases temps onebit, or makes the system look like crap it won't be getting my name on it.

I don't settle for compomises, and if that means I'll sell less systems if stock cooling cannot be utilized, thats just fine and I have already made my decision that I won't even consider stock cooling for this arrangement....

[Brett W]

Why would a 914 four owner pay 5500-6000$ for a 160-180hp stock motor? You can swap a 200+ hp four or six for a few dollars more. Or if you are Dan for less.

[ottox914]

Here we go again...

[jimkelly]

For similar money I'd prefer a big type four 4 - I guess. Thou my price range is more in line with a freshened up 1.7 and a subaru or chysler turbo, and a megasquirt or similar FI system. I look forward to all of Jake comments regarding his testing and MELTING ; )

[r_towle]

QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Oct 31 2005, 03:48 PM)

I don't do much for full race cars, I prefer to create dual purpose engines/components that are very happy on the street, so this system is realy being researched primarily FOR THE STREET.... Then provide heat. I'm all about "Doing it all the way or not at all" I would consider heat part of a complete solution...anything less would be not done all the way. Now, 5-6 k is alot for the HP gain, but a well thought out system that INCLUDES heat right from the beginning and is integrated and not an after thought....that has merit. I look at all the cool header systems for type 1 beetles....no heat... The world is not always warm...a large part of your customer base must be in areas that need heat... If you were the one to come up with a system (for both type 4 and type 1) that could sustain a decent heating system, you would be famous. I know Berg did some bigger heater boxes for the type 1, but I have heard they are NLA..... Just 2 cents. from the Northern part of the country.

See above.

[Jake Raby]

QUOTE (Brett W @ Oct 31 2005, 05:21 PM)

Why would a 914 four owner pay 5500-6000$ for a 160-180hp stock motor? You can swap a 200+ hp four or six for a few dollars more. Or if you are Dan for less.

Better question:

Why would a Honda driver even give a shit?????? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/monkeydance.gif)

[jd74914]

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/owned.gif)

honduh people usually do like turbos tho.

Jake, what are using as EFI on you turbo beasts in development?

[Jake Raby]

The same FI I have been using on my N/A engines for quite sometime now.. It's based on SDS electronics with a few things from my "Goodie Locker"......

[jd74914]

Ok thanks . . .just curious (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)

[Sammy]

I second the vote for a six over a powerful 4 if the price is remotely similar.

for me the whole point of turbocharging a type 4 was to get good power from a cheap engine.
cheap horsepower is a good thing, expensive horsepower sux.
If cost wasn't an object I would have done a big six in a heartbeat.
flame on

[nein14]

Why doesn't anyone look at what EvilEd did 94mm Mahles 7.65 comp. Bosch CIS injection KKK26 with SSI heat exchangers etc. Trust me it works and is very very reliable, and goes like hell!! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/driving.gif)

[jd74914]

how did he manage to keep the SSI's with the turbo, do you have a pic handy because I can't visualize it. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/huh.gif)

[Aaron Cox]

QUOTE (jd74914 @ Oct 31 2005, 07:47 PM)

how did he manage to keep the SSI's with the turbo, do you have a pic handy because I can't visualize it. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/huh.gif)

guessing similar to airsix's install. HE's to collector, collector to turbo, turbo to muffler, muffler to tailpipe

[Jake Raby]

A cat can be skinned more than one way...

Some ways are better than others and I'll do my best to find the smartest way- trust me.

There is no right way, the book doesn't exist that dictates that. Ed did a great job on his arrangement for sure, but I don't tend to walk in the foot steps of others, no matter who they were or what their results were.

FYI- To the poster above that mentioned that the prce of this kit will be in the neigb=hborhood of a six conversion:

Thats not the case I have seen from those who have done the conversion and paid someone else to do the work. Perhaps if you start with a junkyard bastard size six that no one else wants you may do it for even less than the prices stated, but who likes to work with junk that might scatter tomorrow? Sure some of those engines last forever, but guesswork isn't fun for anyone.

FWIW- The STOCK rebuild a 2.0 TIV these days, if done by anyone reputable at all will cost you 5K bucks complete.. Of course my prices are higher than that and I don't do a 100% stock engine anyway. Typically those 5K stock rebuilds don't even get balanced or even faintly blueprinted and rarely make 100HP..... So, whats so wrong with ripping out your current engine thats in decent shape, ripping off the tin and bolting an assembly to it that can increase power output by about 50-80%???? Thats why I intend to use those engines I have in my stash with 80-100K miles on them as some of my first guinea pigs- They are more likely to give us real data of what the customer that has a used engine in their car can expect and the points that their engine might fail just like the test beast did when the boost is cranked up!

This is the reasoning for me even trying to offer the kit. Its really my absolute last attempt at trying to fulfuill the aircooled 4 cylinder 914 market for guys that like the car the way it was from the factory. Like I said, what I learn can always be utilized for my 356/ 912 and beetle conversions and therefore my efforts with the 914 will never be wasted effort. At minimum I'll have a six cylinder killing machine with a MassIVe badge for myself and I guess thats really all that matters... I do intend to give the 914 following an option the same way I have with my N/A 4 cylinder program thus far so if it sales, it sales, if it don't its not gonna hurt my feelings! Hell this is fun work!

Lets don't get this blown out of porportion the way we ALL know that it can. There is a definite desire for a Turbo kit and my planned development in the 914 & T4 world, so don't crucify me for having some enthusiasm and getting the job done the right way.

I can see now that my forum will have to be utilized for all my developmental sharing from now on, including the results of the "melting" party.... Don't expect to see me answering questions about it here, all that seems to do is create drama and confusion.... If you are a 4 cylinder enthusiast and want to keep up with what I'm doing come on over-

[jd74914]

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Oct 31 2005, 09:52 PM)

QUOTE (jd74914 @ Oct 31 2005, 07:47 PM) how did he manage to keep the SSI's with the turbo, do you have a pic handy because I can't visualize it. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/huh.gif) guessing similar to airsix's install. HE's to collector, collector to turbo, turbo to muffler, muffler to tailpipe

that makes sense, didn't think of that way, i was thinking of a turbo before the HE's and wondering how he balanced the muffler at the end

[Joe Ricard]

Jake how about that forum. I have registered and jumped the hoops. Just not able to log in and post to STF. Ya got a secret handshake or sumpin?
"Go Navy" didn't work..... Can't get myself to say Hoorah more than once. <<<< and thats it.