subaru conversion kit?? Options

[mike373]

Anybody think a full conversion kit will be available in the near future, that will have everything you need to do a suby engine conversion. Meaning clutch, adapter, radiator, pre-fabricated engine mount. Basically everthing needed to bang it out. Im starting to fantisize about the suby 2.5 liter engine in my 914....


Mike

[lapuwali]

Renegade has one available now, or very soon. The radiator setup is available from them, but priced separately. You're looking at $3500 in conversion parts, plus an engine.

[Mueller]

QUOTE (mike373 @ Nov 8 2005, 01:42 PM)

Anybody think a full conversion kit will be available in the near future, that will have everything you need to do a suby engine conversion. Meaning clutch, adapter, radiator, pre-fabricated engine mount. Basically everthing needed to bang it out. Im starting to fantisize about the suby 2.5 liter engine in my 914.... Mike

you can buy it right now.....

renegade hybrids

[Mueller]

it couldn't hurt to ask for a discount on the radiator if buying the kit (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

[mike373]

Does that radiator only come as the front mounted type? Or do they offer one that can be mounted in the engine bay, as I saw on a recent post? Will that provide enough cooling in the engine bay?

Mike

[Mueller]

QUOTE (mike373 @ Nov 8 2005, 02:35 PM)

Does that radiator only come as the front mounted type? Or do they offer one that can be mounted in the engine bay, as I saw on a recent post? Will that provide enough cooling in the engine bay? Mike

renegades kit is front mounted radiator...if you want the radiator in the engine compartment there is no kit as of yet, I'm sure someone such as Scott T. would make one for a "fee" (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smash.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/welder.gif)

the advantage of the radiator in the front of the car is that you could more easily add a turbo or other performance upgrades and never worry about overheating the car....

the renegade radiator kit is pricey, but it works and it almost looks like it belongs installed in the car....

[Porcharu]

I plan on making a Suby kit. I am fairly serious about this - so far I have about $10K in tools and shop stuff to do work like this. I am picking up my engine, transmission and a CNC mill on Friday.

What I plan on making is "minimum parts" type of kit to mount a Suby engine AND transmission along with the mid mounted radiator that Scott T (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/pray.gif) pioneered (if I make any money at this some of it will be shared with Scott.) The main design goal is to minimize any cutting (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/sawzall-smiley.gif) or drilling on the car. I hope to be able to supply the mounts, the transmission AWD to FWD parts and the shift linkage along with part numbers for hoses, belts, radiator etc and instructions on how to do the swap.

Unfortunatly for the project (not for me) I have a new baby (our first) on the way, I hope I can get started this winter but I won't be suprised if being a new dad slows me down - alot. The good thing is my day job is really slow so I can dedicate more time to important things like engine swaps and kids.

The price will be very reasonable as I won't be reselling anything that I don't make or have made specifically for this project. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/clap.gif)

[TonyAKAVW]

I'm predicting that many people will be selling parts for this conversion soon. There are a lot of people interested in doing the conversion and a fair number already in progress.

In terms of a complete kit, who knows. A complete kit would take considerable development time and effort. Especially to supply a plug and play wiring harness and so forth that works with the stock ECU and the 914, OR an aftermarket computer and the 914.

Also, one of the attractive parts of this conversion is the cost, so whoever sells kits or parts isn't going to be making a ton of money off of them. Either they sell to the few people who are willing to fork over lots of money (renegade customers) or they sell to cheapskates like myself, who may be as likely to make our own parts anyway.

I would keep your eyes open for sources of the various parts and collect them that way. (unless you want to do the renegade setup)...

That would include:

Engine bar (Scott mentioned the possibility of making these)

Radiator shroud (same as above)

Transmission adapter and flywheel (Kennedy)

Wiring Harness (Scott will modify these for a fee I believe...)

Oil Pan (can be purchased from Outback Motors)

Exhaust (no bolt together exhaust exists to my knowledge, but 2-1 pipes can be bought from Outback)

Alternator bracket (These should be coming out soon)

That should _pretty much_ do it... maybe I'm forgetting something..

-Tony

[MidEngineFun]

Lurker here finally posting

The Subaru motor conversions seem to fall into 2 sections, those that want a very clean install such as the Renegade conversion and those that don't mind the thrown together approach.

I don't understand the later group, you don't want to cut the front trunk, yet there is no reservation from using junkyard parts and square tubing bought from Lowes or the local Hardware store.

What good is the claim of no cutting when it looks like something out of Junkyard Wars?

Mr Srbliss, I look forward to seeing your kit

[BIGKAT_83]

I have yet to see a picture of the renegade suby engine conversion.....You got one? I think the work Tony is doing is a hell of a long way from Junkyard wars.
Bob (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif)

[lapuwali]

QUOTE (MidEngineFun @ Nov 8 2005, 04:18 PM)

Lurker here finally posting The Subaru motor conversions seem to fall into 2 sections, those that want a very clean install such as the Renegade conversion and those that don't mind the thrown together approach. I don't understand the later group, you don't want to cut the front trunk, yet there is no reservation from using junkyard parts and square tubing bought from Lowes or the local Hardware store. What good is the claim of no cutting when it looks like something out of Junkyard Wars? Mr Srbliss, I look forward to seeing your kit

The result may look bad, but if you removed it, the tub would still be exactly as it was when you started, and could be converted back to air-cooled four usage w/o re-welding on the bits you cut out to install the radiator in the front trunk.

Also, a lot of the thrown-together jobs are really just works in progress, and you're only seeing the early stages. I've seen V8 conversions that took several years to make nice looking, but the car was drivable most of the time. This, IMHO, is much better than having a car sit on jackstands for 8 years and not get driven until it's pristine.

Until you've actually done a swap, you really have no idea just how difficult the job really is. The last 10% of the work takes 90% of the time, and it's all in the details that jump out at people when they first see the car.

[TonyAKAVW]

QUOTE

The Subaru motor conversions seem to fall into 2 sections, those that want a very clean install such as the Renegade conversion and those that don't mind the thrown together approach.

I disagree. I think the division is not based on 'clean install' versus 'hack.' I don't believe there are many people who actually _want_ a hack job in the end. I think the division is based more on those who want to build it themselves because its a challenge, and those who have neither the time nor interest in re-inventing the wheel.

QUOTE

I don't understand the later group, you don't want to cut the front trunk, yet there is no reservation from using junkyard parts and square tubing bought from Lowes or the local Hardware store.

I call false dichotomy... Cutting up the front trunk is not looked down upon solely for the sake of purity, or cleanliness of install (assuming that is the objection). In my case I want to keep the front trunk because I really like the idea of being able to go on a long road trip and have space to store stuff. My car is not going to be a track only car, and if I have a choice of locations, I'd much rather have it in the middle of the car than intrude on my trunk space.

And what exactly is the objection to junkyard parts and square tubing from Lowe's? I don't even understand how you could do an engine swap without using a junkyard engine. There aren't a whole lot of places that you can go and buy a brand new off the shelf Subaru engine with everything you need. And if you could it would cost a fortune. And if you choose to spend money like that, you are probably not thinking of putting a 165 HP economy car engine into a 914... At least thats what I have observed.

-Tony

[Porcharu]

I don't know when I will have a "kit" ready, but it will be a nice clean install that I am proud of or I won't offer it to others. I think my car is a pretty nice car and I want it to stay that way.

I also haven't seen any "hack jobs" on this site - engine swaps take a long time to get fully sorted out (I have done a few.) I am still amazed that Scott drove his conversion across the country for a shakedown run. I for one really appreciate others showing off their work and I am amazed at what many (Tony comes to mind) can do with simple tools and hard work.

Like I said before the object for me is a minimal cut or drill setup. As an example I plan on making an transmission-engine-radiator cradle that mounts to the stock engine and trans mounts. I am fairly sure that the stock shifter can be used.

Steve

[plymouth37]

the renegade kit is all round mandrel bent tube, cnc-plasma cut gussets etc... no pics are being released because the last time we published our work it just got ripped off. be assured that no expense was spared in the research and development of this product, it is a very professional, well put together bolt in kit. no cutting or welding is required to install the cradle, tranny, engine,etc...

[MartyYeoman]

Can someone answer what happens to the cabin heat due to one of these conversions?

[Mueller]

QUOTE (Marty Yeoman @ Nov 9 2005, 01:58 PM)

Can someone answer what happens to the cabin heat due to one of these conversions?

interesting question Marty...I'd think the extra heat from the radiator in the back would be noticed mostly right after the car is shut off

on a sorta related note...from the few articles I've read about the new Cayman, the heat from the engine makes the cabin warmer than in the Boxster.....

[plymouth37]

with my front mount radiator and wrx engine my cabin is actually cooler (and a lot quieter!)

[andys]

QUOTE (plymouth37 @ Nov 9 2005, 11:12 AM)

the renegade kit is all round mandrel bent tube, cnc-plasma cut gussets etc... no pics are being released because the last time we published our work it just got ripped off. be assured that no expense was spared in the research and development of this product, it is a very professional, well put together bolt in kit. no cutting or welding is required to install the cradle, tranny, engine,etc...

This practice seems very odd to me. For some $3K, you expect someone to buy your kit sight-unseen? There are many in the specialty business that willingly share what it is you expect to purchase. I would think your protection from, as you say rip-off, would be product design integrity, quality, prompt delivery (customer service), and competitive pricing. A rudamentary photo would not reveal any secrets; speaking as an engineer, the secret is in the design details and their execution, and not the grand scheme. I see little reason to worry.

Andys

[plymouth37]

I wish it worked that way, but you would be amazed at how many people have taken a tour of our shop, taken photos, and then promptly went in to business. I know it is asking a lot to say "give me money, trust me it will be awesome.) but unfortunately that is how it is going to have to be. If you want to come out to vegas I would be more than happy to give you a ride in my car and show you the mount in the car and every thing. I would rather not post pics though. sorry.

[Mueller]

QUOTE (plymouth37 @ Nov 9 2005, 03:38 PM)

I wish it worked that way, but you would be amazed at how many people have taken a tour of our shop, taken photos, and then promptly went in to business. I know it is asking a lot to say "give me money, trust me it will be awesome.) but unfortunately that is how it is going to have to be. If you want to come out to vegas I would be more than happy to give you a ride in my car and show you the mount in the car and every thing. I would rather not post pics though. sorry.

I'd have to somewhat agree on this...right now there are many people that want to do the conversion..one of the 1st things they ask is how is the motor mounted and want to see pictures....if shown pictures of a true bolt in solution, some will attempt to make it, others will print it out and give to buddy and others will figure out they don't have the means to dupe it and will either buy it, or give up on the conversion.

However, not everyone needs a visual to make an item, but you really open the door by doing so. The kit cannot remain a secret forever, someone will buy a kit and post pictures unless you have some sorta legal paper not allowing it (which won't hold up).....



The way I look at it if you want to do the conversion, at the current price of the kit, you either buy the kit knowing it'll work or fab everything up yourself to save money (and spend the time fab'ing and such).....

the sad part is, I can already see some poor soul buying the kit from Renegade, getting his car running and post about it and one of the 1st replys will be "you should have saved your money and build everything yourself like I did" (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif)