Babydoll is acting bitchy, '74 2.0 FI won't start Options

[zymurgist]

After a long weekend of wrenching and grunting, we have managed to put all of Babydoll's mechanicals back together. We even put the battery on a charger in anticipation of the triumphal moment where she fired up and pissed off all the neighbors (although I do have a Corvette that I drive on weekends and my tail dragger can finally move under its own power and they both make beautiful noises). Unfortunately, we're still waiting for that triumphal moment where the engine roars to life. The starter runs just fine, but the engine won't run. If I spray a little starting fluid into the throttle body, it kicks over for about a half a second (so I think we have spark, and yes, all the plugs are within spec). Otherwise, the starter just turns and turns and the engine fails to start

I installed new 5/16" mild steel lines in the tunnel for the fuel system. I suspect that the engine is not getting any gas. I loosened the clamp on the inlet of the fuel pump and there is defintely gas going to the pump. I haven't disconnected the other lines because I don't want high pressure fuel all over me. Do I have to bleed the fuel system of air or do anything similar to that?

I also discovered a couple of loose wires... on the top of the engine itself, there is a white wire and a red and green wire... I have a wiring diagram but it doesn't have any wire color coding. Also, there is a green wire coming out of the harness underneath where the battery tray would be (I know, I know...). Any ideas regarding what these wires are for, and would any of these wires prevent the engine from starting?

Getting this car running would make a certain lady (who is well known to the East Coast 914 folks in the Mid-Atlantic) extremely happy... I feel like we are so close to firing up that we're missing something simple.

[type47]

i've often read of the mistake of switching the fuel supply and the fuel return hoses. the D port (druck) on the fuel pump should be the pressure side, that is, the hose from the D port goes to the fuel injectors then after the FI's to the fuel pressure regulator, the center port of the pressure regulator i think. the pressure regulator acts like a controlled leak back to the fuel tank, the controlled leak maintains pressure to the fuel rails and the FI's connected off the fuel rails. the port off the fuel rail on which the hose to the cold start valve is fed, can be connected to an inexpensive pressure gauge (home depot water pressure gauge located with the sump pumps) and short length of fuel injection quality hose to verify fuel pressure. the side facing connection off the pressure regulator then routes the fuel back to the tank. good luck! that's my novice first guess.

[swl]

What engine? D-Jet?

I checked fuel flow by disconnecting the return from the pressure regulator where it connects to the plastic line through the tin. It is just long enough to pull back to the drivers side and over the fender into a fuel container. Certainly that will tell you if you have fuel flowing. You can also get an indication just by running the fuel pump. You'll hear it labour as the pressure builds up.

Priming doesn't seem to be a requirement as long as you are on reasonably level ground - pump below the fuel level.

[Gint]

You don't have to prime, nor is air in the fuel system an issue. You do need to check if you are pumping fuel. The injection system doesn't maintain pressure when it isn't running, so disconnect a hose and check for fuel pressure.

[r_towle]

Go for a simple audible test.

Turn key to run position...do you hear the fuel pump wirring for a couple of seconds??? If not, could be either a relay, or you Fuel pump is not wired correctly.


Rich

[zymurgist]

The fuel feed line is connected to the "D" nipple on the (front mounted) fuel pump, and the fuel line from the tank/fuel filter is connected to the "S" nipple. I can hear the fuel pump running when my friend cranks over the engine.

[Jacco]

Hi,

you also have a one-way fuel valve on the engine (fuel pressure regulator?) If you connected it backwards the engine will not get any fuel... don't ask me how I know (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/screwy.gif)
Don't know the correct hook up by hart, but should be able to find out.. or just switch the two fuel lines on the valve.

good luck
Jacco

[Kerrys914]

Maybe a road trip is needed.. Shoot me an e-mail of where the car is located?

I had a d-jet before my SIX conversion and did my share of debugg'n (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/headbang.gif)

Cheers
Kerry

[Kerrys914]

Also...pull the FI points out if it's a D-jet.. Most problems seem to come down to this. I may have a spare set in PA. They are easy to clean and test on a bench.

I also use a old OEM relay with thr top removed to activate the pump on command. With the top removed you can push down on the metal tang in the relay and the pump will be energized..This is used to JUST test things out. If you push down on the relay tang and it doens't run then you have Fuel Pump issues (relay, wiring, pump..etc) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif)

[ws91420]

With the front pump I sure there is a fuel filter prior to the pump. Check to make sure that is filled and stays filled or it will capitate (sp) the pump. If it dosent could be junk around the sock on the pickup tube in the tank.

[zymurgist]

It's hard to see whether the filter is full, because it is made of opaque white plastic (I could actually see through the old filter). The filter has a 3/8" nipple on one side and a 5/16" nipple on the other side, to accommodate the 3/8" line coming out of the fuel tank. Unfortunately, the flow arrow on the filter is pointing the wrong way... didn't think it would make a difference because I could easily blow air through the filter in both directions before I installed it.

[ws91420]

I was talking about the sock in the tank being blocked aka one of Britts problems he had.

[type47]

ken, somehow we got disconnected on the phone. shoot me an email with your wiring questions if you haven't solved them.

[zymurgist]

I checked the fuel hoses, and lo and behold, I did have them connected wrong. I had the fuel feed line connected to the regulator and the return line connected to the fuel rail. This is incorrect. Sooo, I swapped the hoses so the fuel rail gets high pressure fuel and the hose from the regulator goes to the return line. I also constructed a fuel pressure gauge per Jim's directions, and I can verify that I am getting 30 psi when cranking. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/clap.gif)

But now, although the engine cranks over, and I hear an intermittent "brap" as though it is getting some fuel, the engine never starts up. It doesn't matter whether I spray starting fluid into the throttle body; it won't start, although it is clearly trying to do so. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/mad.gif) I checked all the ignition wire connections and made sure they were tight. I am using a battery charger with 60 amp booster, so I shouldn't be running the battery way down. What should I look at next?

[bd1308]

firing order. i'd check that. the order is printed on my tin....which is cool. my 2.0 didnt have that, or it was covered up with the gunk.

b

[r_towle]

you need fuel, air and spark.

Fuel
turn key to RUN position..the pump should wirr...
It does not run while the engine is cranking...just when the key goes to run. Then is tuns after the motor starts.

Porsche reccomended turning the key from off to run several times prior to cranking to build up the pressure.

Air.
make sure that you throttle position valve is plugged in and working,,,open it up and clean it.

Temp sensor...in the cylinder head on the passenger side just under the rear plug is a wire coming out of the tin.
Unplug that wire, take an ohm meter and verify that you have 2-3k ohms while cold...sensor-ground.
If this sensor is bad, the car will not start .

Spark...its 1432 firing order...the cylinder tin has marks on it, numbers about 1 inch high each right over the plug.

Take out a plug, connect the wire and ground the plug to the motor somewhere and have your friend crank it over...see if you get a good STRONG spark......if not,,you may need new points and condensor...or possibly a coil.

You can do the same test with the coil wire, but substitute a plug for a nail..and wear rubber or leather gloves...rubber is best...it hurts getting shocked from the coil...but if you suspect it...short it to ground and look for a realy good spark...

Good luck...keep hunting.

Rich

[swl]

Lots of places for fuel to go wrong. You now have fuel confirmed to the injectors. Next step might be to confirm the injectors are working. One of the tests that I learned here is for the fuel injection basic pulse. Key on, kick the throttle. You should hear the injectors click.

[zymurgist]

I checked the temperature sensor... 3000 ohms cold. I also checked and tightened all the ground wires underneath the air cleaner. Now I see a couple of devices that look like they should have wires attached... there is one almost directly underneath the distributor, and then there is another one a little further back. Both are mounted on the engine case. Will either of these keep the engine from starting?

[zymurgist]

Oh, when I crank the engine, I can get it to (kind of) run. Only the #1 cylinder fires. I re-seated all the injector plugs, and ignition wires at both ends. It's kind of hard to check the ignition wires for spark at this point because I'm working by myself.

[r_towle]

ok.

You first need to make sure all your sensors are connected.

There is one below the distributor...oil pressure sensor...it needs to be connected.

There are quite a few more that need to be connected...

What you need to do is take sone clear pics of the motor from both sides so we can see all the wiring and vacuum lines that are connected...

This way things can be diagnosed..

Rich