Home  |  Forums  |  914 Info  |  Blogs
 
914World.com - The fastest growing online 914 community!
 
Porsche, and the Porsche crest are registered trademarks of Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG. This site is not affiliated with Porsche in any way.
Its only purpose is to provide an online forum for car enthusiasts. All other trademarks are property of their respective owners.
 

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

2 Pages V  1 2 >  
 Reply to this topicStart new topic
> At home rollcages, Is it possible, with a little help....
Rough_Rider
post Nov 14 2005, 02:41 PM
Post #1


Smurf Zone
***

Group: Members
Posts: 525
Joined: 16-August 04
From: Beaverton, OR
Member No.: 2,547
So was looking at off the shelf cage designs & TBO i don't fancy any of them. So question is if i pickup a Autopower weld in roll hoop & some extra lengths of DOM tubing could i make something myself (Minus points, no welder, welding experience, tube bender nore notcher). Or have a fabricator make additional pieces.


This is the idea for passanger compartment. Criteria, save my skin in side impact & rollover situations. Keep targa panel. Stiffen longs.

There could be extra tie in bars to suspension, but thats not this cage's primary purpose.


Attached image(s)
Attached Image
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
MattR
post Nov 14 2005, 02:47 PM
Post #2


Advanced Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 3,279
Joined: 23-January 04
From: SF Bay Area
Member No.: 1,589
Region Association: Northern California
I would take a look at some of the cages in other 914s. I dont know about that design.

Chris Foley (CFR) makes some really nice cages that are race proven. It looks like you're missing some pretty critical pickup points. http://www.tangerineracing.com/Rollcages.htm

Another option is to run it through a cad program and check for torsional rigidity, but if you dont know what I'm talking about, just look at pictures (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
seanery
post Nov 14 2005, 02:51 PM
Post #3


waiting to rebuild whitey!
***************

Group: Retired Admin
Posts: 15,852
Joined: 7-January 03
From: Indy
Member No.: 100
Region Association: None
tonyc (username here) makes some great 914cages, too.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Scott Carlberg
post Nov 14 2005, 03:04 PM
Post #4


Porsche MOTORSPORTS
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,595
Joined: 17-April 03
From: Modesto, Ca
Member No.: 580
what Seanery said:

http://www.tcdesignfab.com/914projects.htm
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
nomore9one4
post Nov 14 2005, 03:48 PM
Post #5


Member of the Eastcoast Thread Killers Club
****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,666
Joined: 26-December 02
From: Pittsburgh,Pa.15237
Member No.: 14
Region Association: None
I made mine out of PVC pipe! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ohmy.gif)
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
brant
post Nov 14 2005, 06:42 PM
Post #6


914 Wizard
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 11,624
Joined: 30-December 02
From: Colorado
Member No.: 47
Region Association: Rocky Mountains
I would highly advise against learning to weld on a roll cage.
you can certainly add bars to an off the shelf type of cage, but I wouldn't do it yourself. Pay a local race shop to do it for you.

I've welded for about 8 years now and did all of the welding on my own car except for the cage. I wouldn't touch the cage. I view that as the most critical welds on the whole car and won't place my life on the line for such an important weld.

brant
User is online!Profile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
MikeP
post Nov 14 2005, 06:50 PM
Post #7


Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 321
Joined: 13-June 05
From: San Jose, CA
Member No.: 4,268
Welding only looks easy on TV. Once you learn and you understand what not to do it is easy, but getting there takes a while. That said cages aren't too difficult IF YOU KNOW HOW TO WELD AND HAVE ALL THE TOOLS.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Dave_Darling
post Nov 14 2005, 07:26 PM
Post #8


914 Idiot
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 14,986
Joined: 9-January 03
From: Silicon Valley / Kailua-Kona
Member No.: 121
Region Association: Northern California
Think of it this way: The cage is prety much the only thing that is keeping that ---hole Miata (see Racer Chris' recent video) from stuffing his bumper into your passenger compartment, causing serious injuries or a fatality. Do you want to have that cage full of "beginners mistakes"?

--DD
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
TimT
post Nov 14 2005, 07:52 PM
Post #9


retired
****

Group: Members
Posts: 4,033
Joined: 18-February 03
From: Wantagh, NY
Member No.: 313
Ive built a few from scratch cages, and also installed/modified a few off the shelf cages (OG racing,Autopower, Safety Devices, etc)

before you buy a cage or attempt this at home, get some pieces of 1.5 and 1.75 in dia do DOM tube and learn to fishmouth tubing, and weld, learn to weld in ackward postions, ie overhead and blind.

then try and destroy your welded joints..if the tube deforms and bends, and the weld holds, your on your way...

then you have to design a good cage.

I modeled a Safety Devices 911 cage on a FEA program and it showed very few hot spots.... An off the shelf cage can work as foundation for a really substantial cage that ties all suspension pickups, together and trangulates the whole tub

Youll need a mandrel bender, a notcher, a right angle grinder, and of course a suitable welder. Also helpful are comealongs, hydraulic jacks etc.. There are tools available so you can copy and tranfer the fishmouth you need to you tubing.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
RON S.
post Nov 15 2005, 06:12 AM
Post #10


9140430841, FINALLY RUNNING
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,212
Joined: 22-May 03
From: WALTERBORO,S.C.
Member No.: 724
Region Association: South East States
I personally at some point in time wanna put a cage in my teener.

I like the work that has been done to all the teeners by TCDesign.If I lived in Ca. i'd have him do me a cage no problem.

I'd think that after all the teener cages he's done,he'd maybe make a semi-broke down kit that he'd ship to a customer for final welding? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/idea.gif)

A guy on the East coast dreaming of a cage install by a pro like Tony,will never flip for putting his car on a hauler for a 6000 mile round trip for a cage.But he still wants one.

Does anyone ever had him make and ship a semi-complete cage to final fit and weld at home????.

Just asking.

Ron
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
ChrisFoley
post Nov 15 2005, 06:19 AM
Post #11


I am Tangerine Racing
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 7,925
Joined: 29-January 03
From: Bolton, CT
Member No.: 209
Region Association: None
QUOTE (RON S. @ Nov 15 2005, 07:12 AM)
Does anyone ever had him make and ship a semi-complete cage to final fit and weld at home????.

Both Tony and I have been asked about this before.
Neither of us (to my knowledge) have taken that step so far. Shipping of a roll cage is a big deal for one thing. Liability is another. At least if we weld it ourselves the liability issue is under our control to the greatest extent possible.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Rough_Rider
post Nov 15 2005, 10:20 AM
Post #12


Smurf Zone
***

Group: Members
Posts: 525
Joined: 16-August 04
From: Beaverton, OR
Member No.: 2,547
Guys great advice thanks again. I'm with Ron on this one. There has to be plenty of owners out there who'd want cages but without the many miles travel for fitting. I do get that these are custom but surely there's some leeway.

Chris, understand your worried about liability, who wouldn't be. Could a partnership be arranged in different States between the likes of yourselves & sufficiently qualified welders / installers?

Looks like the only option is to find a local raceshop & have the whole thing fabricated. Using a off the shelf roll hoop as a starting point doesn't appear to reduce cost or gain any advantages.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
airsix
post Nov 15 2005, 11:51 AM
Post #13


I have bees in my epiglotis
****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,196
Joined: 7-February 03
From: Kennewick Man (E. WA State)
Member No.: 266
QUOTE (Racer Chris @ Nov 15 2005, 04:19 AM)
Shipping of a roll cage is a big deal for one thing. Liability is another. At least if we weld it ourselves the liability issue is under our control to the greatest extent possible.

Just market them as yard ornaments with big stickers that read "Only for use as a lawn ornament. Not to be used as an FIA/SCCA/POC/PCA approved Porsche 914 safety device for motorsports competition even though it's a perfect fit and will pass inspection and will save your life." (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)
-Ben M.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
RON S.
post Nov 15 2005, 12:24 PM
Post #14


9140430841, FINALLY RUNNING
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,212
Joined: 22-May 03
From: WALTERBORO,S.C.
Member No.: 724
Region Association: South East States
QUOTE (Racer Chris @ Nov 15 2005, 04:19 AM)
QUOTE (RON S. @ Nov 15 2005, 07:12 AM)
Does anyone ever had him make and ship a semi-complete cage to final fit and weld at home????.

Both Tony and I have been asked about this before.
Neither of us (to my knowledge) have taken that step so far. Shipping of a roll cage is a big deal for one thing. Liability is another. At least if we weld it ourselves the liability issue is under our control to the greatest extent possible.

Chris,

I think that guys like me that live here in Outer Slabobia are caught in a catch 22 situation.

Spending a couple grand on a cage that is a work of art is no problem.The cost's of transportation is.

Plus,when the car leaves the driveway,it is gonna,REPEAT GONNA receieve some damage somewhere from someone,whose gonna point the finger of blame at someone else in a never-ending circle.Translation,lots of sleepless nights and day-long anxiety attacks.

My thoughts for some of the do-it-yourselfers would be to pre-fab the main hoop at the rear of the cab and the upper roof hoop that runs from the rear hoop,up front along the top of the windows,loops the upper windshield header and around back to the rear hoop.

Those two pieces,surely wouldn't be to hard to ship separately.Those are the two hard pieces.The rest can be fab'd at home.

In addition,If your using a cnc bender,the programs by now are locked in stone for a nice snug fit for every 914.


Just a thought from us poor souls out in the netherland,

Ron
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
airsix
post Nov 15 2005, 02:07 PM
Post #15


I have bees in my epiglotis
****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,196
Joined: 7-February 03
From: Kennewick Man (E. WA State)
Member No.: 266
For those of us out in the sticks we ought to pool together and buy this.
Then we could pass it around and each use it to build our cages. Or one person could buy it and rent it out to other members. One way or another I'm building a cage someday. I have an engineer friend who will do FEA on the design and weld inspection on the work.

-Ben M.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Brett W
post Nov 15 2005, 02:08 PM
Post #16


Advanced Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,856
Joined: 17-September 03
From: huntsville, al
Member No.: 1,169
Region Association: None
With all due respect to TonyC and Chris, there are many capable shops within a couple of hundred miles that can and do build really nice cages for teeners.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
brant
post Nov 15 2005, 03:02 PM
Post #17


914 Wizard
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 11,624
Joined: 30-December 02
From: Colorado
Member No.: 47
Region Association: Rocky Mountains
I agree with Brett.

If you live near Chris then get Chris's cage.
but if you live in the middle of no where (myself included)

you will find MANY good race shops that can build a custom cage.

Try reputable circle track shops.

I'll bet they are common in the south.

I guarantee there are many shops that can weld and build quality cages. The fact that they haven't done a 914 before, doesn't mean they aren't professional race shops.

brant
User is online!Profile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Aaron Cox
post Nov 15 2005, 05:23 PM
Post #18


Professional Lawn Dart
***************

Group: Retired Admin
Posts: 24,541
Joined: 1-February 03
From: OC
Member No.: 219
Region Association: Southern California
QUOTE (airsix @ Nov 15 2005, 01:07 PM)
For those of us out in the sticks we ought to pool together and buy this.
Then we could pass it around and each use it to build our cages. Or one person could buy it and rent it out to other members. One way or another I'm building a cage someday. I have an engineer friend who will do FEN on the design and weld inspection on the work.

-Ben M.

wow. low buck tools is a few miles from me... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
J P Stein
post Nov 15 2005, 07:17 PM
Post #19


Irrelevant old fart
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 8,797
Joined: 30-December 02
From: Vancouver, WA
Member No.: 45
Region Association: None
Again, not rocket science.......but it does take a good weldor.
I bought an Auto power cage(around 500 bucks from I/O Port Racin'). It's pre-bent .....Did the fitment my self with a few extras thown in (and a couple items thrown out)and my buddy welded it in. IMO, a cage is a waste without tying it into the body for a stiffness increase....tho I have not yet tied in the suspension towers.

You need a torch & grinder to fishmouth or a good drill press
& hole saws. Metal fabrication is not a speciality of mine....but I learn quick and am not the sharpest kinfe in the drawer. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Powerman
post Nov 15 2005, 07:48 PM
Post #20


Newbie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 37
Joined: 24-November 03
From: Stafford, VA
Member No.: 1,384
I bought a tubing bender and notcher and welded it myself.
Nodoy would follow through locally, so I did it.
I have welded for years, and had a pro teach me Mig.
I tested several joints and they were great.
I trust my work is done right, It's my life.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
« Next Oldest · 914World Garage · Next Newest »
 

2 Pages V  1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 

Display Mode: Standard · Switch to: Linear+ · Switch to: Outline

Track this topic · Email this topic · Print this topic · Subscribe to this forum

- Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 17th May 2024 - 02:21 PM
Invision Power Board v9.1.4 © 2024  IPS, Inc.
All rights reserved 914World.com © since 2002
914World.com is the fastest growing online 914 community!
We have it all, classifieds, events, forums, vendors, parts, autocross, racing, technical articles, events calendar, newsletter, restoration, gallery, archives, history and more for your Porsche 914 ...