Starter Motor Replacement, Hide and seek? |
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Starter Motor Replacement, Hide and seek? |
smooth_eddy |
Nov 27 2005, 11:37 AM
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#1
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 535 Joined: 13-November 04 From: Seattle Member No.: 3,102 |
Okay, my new Nippondenso mini starter showed up yesterday (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif) I was surprised how small it is. Looks like a motorcycle starter. Anyway 2 questions: 1. where did they hide that top bolt? I looked in the engine compartment with no luck. 2. My repair manual says to use VW D1a sealing compound b/t the tranny and the case of the starter. What is that and is it necessary? Thanks, Eddy
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SLITS |
Nov 27 2005, 11:39 AM
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#2
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"This Utah shit is HARSH!" Group: Benefactors Posts: 13,602 Joined: 22-February 04 From: SoCal Mountains ... Member No.: 1,696 Region Association: None |
Sealant no need............
As far as the top bolts....there was a recent thread w/ pictures....it's not that hard to find (the thread or the bolts). |
bd1308 |
Nov 27 2005, 11:40 AM
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#3
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Sir Post-a-lot Group: Members Posts: 8,020 Joined: 24-January 05 From: Louisville,KY Member No.: 3,501 |
1) its behind everything...at the driver-side back of the engine, right near the rear tin...you'll see a nut and a bolt there...thats the starter bolt. it like threads through the engine...
2) ??? |
rhodyguy |
Nov 27 2005, 11:43 AM
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#4
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Chimp Sanctuary NW. Check it out. Group: Members Posts: 22,081 Joined: 2-March 03 From: Orion's Bell. The BELL! Member No.: 378 Region Association: Galt's Gulch |
it's close.
k |
SLITS |
Nov 27 2005, 11:47 AM
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#5
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"This Utah shit is HARSH!" Group: Benefactors Posts: 13,602 Joined: 22-February 04 From: SoCal Mountains ... Member No.: 1,696 Region Association: None |
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KaptKaos |
Nov 27 2005, 12:04 PM
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#6
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Family Group: Members Posts: 4,009 Joined: 23-April 03 From: Near Wausau Member No.: 607 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
My car has a stock 1.7. I removed the air filter and disconnected the large hose that connects to the air filter. You then have some room to move all of this stuff forward so that you get a good look at the nut.
One thing I did was try to guestimate where the bolt went through into engine bay. So, from under the car, there were two hoses that came through the "firewal." The nut is about two to three inches from there, up and towards the passenger side. If you try and follow it that way, it will get you into the neighborhood. Taking off the top bolt, I got lucky. I do not know if you can get a socket on the top bolt from underneath with the stock starter. You can get one on there with the mini. So I losened the top nut, and it would just spin. I pulled the bottom bolt and that cause the top bolt to tilt, which gave me enough friction to get the top nut off. You will need a second set of hands to get the nut back on. Someone will need to hold the bolt while you thread it. After that, you can stick an open end wrench on the nut from the top and use a socket + extension to tighten it from below. Good luck! |
smooth_eddy |
Nov 27 2005, 12:05 PM
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#7
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 535 Joined: 13-November 04 From: Seattle Member No.: 3,102 |
Okay, found the recent thread for the top bolt. But my new starter does not have slot to capture the bolt. I guess I will just have to hope it grabs somehow when I tighten the top nut. Eddy
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Bleyseng |
Nov 27 2005, 12:09 PM
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#8
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Aircooled Baby! Group: Members Posts: 13,034 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Seattle, Washington (for now) Member No.: 24 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
put a vise grip on the bolt head above the starter to hold it.
then put the washer and nut on the engine side, its easy! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/clap.gif) |
SLITS |
Nov 27 2005, 12:09 PM
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#9
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"This Utah shit is HARSH!" Group: Benefactors Posts: 13,602 Joined: 22-February 04 From: SoCal Mountains ... Member No.: 1,696 Region Association: None |
Hang a box end wrench on it....thread the nut & wavy washer on the bolt without pushing to hard....once caught, slowly tighten and the wrench will move up against the trunk floor...tighten (the above after you have put the lower bolt on the starter and tightened it) Edit: Damn Goeff...you type fast (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/type.gif) |
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smooth_eddy |
Nov 27 2005, 12:16 PM
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#10
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 535 Joined: 13-November 04 From: Seattle Member No.: 3,102 |
Thanks everyone... I will give it a shot. I can hardly wait to go lay on my wet driveway. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif) Eddy
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Bleyseng |
Nov 27 2005, 01:24 PM
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#11
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Aircooled Baby! Group: Members Posts: 13,034 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Seattle, Washington (for now) Member No.: 24 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
I am younger than you by a couple of years so my fingers still move. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif) |
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smooth_eddy |
Nov 27 2005, 03:39 PM
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#12
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 535 Joined: 13-November 04 From: Seattle Member No.: 3,102 |
Okay......Done.... Took 1-1/2 hours. Not bad. Used Geoff's idea with the vice grips on the top nut inside the engine compartment. One problem though (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/sad.gif) . The lower nut will not tighten past snug. It goes from snug to loose as the stud just pulls loose as I try to tighten. Looks like I need to run a bottom tap thru the threads and put in a new stud? Does Pelican sell these?
I do like the sound of the new starter though. Has a wine to it kind of like a air starter motor on a large truck. The mini Does a much better job of turning the engine over. Really gets with the program when I turn the key. Also, the old starter works fine (except hot start problems after a few hrs). Is it worth anything, or junk? Eddy Attached image(s) |
SLITS |
Nov 27 2005, 04:28 PM
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#13
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"This Utah shit is HARSH!" Group: Benefactors Posts: 13,602 Joined: 22-February 04 From: SoCal Mountains ... Member No.: 1,696 Region Association: None |
$7 as a core
Are you sure you didn't strip the threads in the nut or on the stud? |
Rough_Rider |
Nov 27 2005, 07:08 PM
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#14
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Smurf Zone Group: Members Posts: 525 Joined: 16-August 04 From: Beaverton, OR Member No.: 2,547 |
Snap, just did this today...
Only took 20 minutes, hardest part was getting a wrench on the top bolt. New one went in smooth as butter. Starter usaed to go, chug.....chug...chug. Not any more (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/mueba.gif) Weighed the units, New one is 8.5lb old Bosch jobbie 13.5lb |
smooth_eddy |
Nov 27 2005, 11:21 PM
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#15
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 535 Joined: 13-November 04 From: Seattle Member No.: 3,102 |
I think the stud must be stripped inside the the tranny housing. The nut and protruding stud have good threads. As I tighten the lower nut, the stud pulls forward. I will have to remove the stud with a small pair of channel locks I guess? Then re-tap and replace the stud with a good thread. Unfortunately, it is not possible to add a nut to the back side of the stud as the tranny housing is in the way. Who ever put in the last starter tightened the lower bolt too much. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/mad.gif) Well the old motor goes in the trash this Wednesday, unless someone here wants it. Eddy |
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SLITS |
Nov 28 2005, 09:32 AM
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#16
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"This Utah shit is HARSH!" Group: Benefactors Posts: 13,602 Joined: 22-February 04 From: SoCal Mountains ... Member No.: 1,696 Region Association: None |
If you "double nut" the stud, you can back it out and then use a helicoil to "renew" the threads.
If you are not familar with the "double nut".....thread one nut on and then another and lock the first against the second. Use the first nut to back the stud out. |
smooth_eddy |
Nov 28 2005, 07:02 PM
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#17
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 535 Joined: 13-November 04 From: Seattle Member No.: 3,102 |
Funny, I called Pelican today as I was driving home from work and they told me the stud was NLA. Soon as he said that, double nutting popped into my head. Guess we are on the same wavelength. So what is a helicoil? How is it different from a bottom tap? Eddy |
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SLITS |
Nov 28 2005, 07:14 PM
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#18
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"This Utah shit is HARSH!" Group: Benefactors Posts: 13,602 Joined: 22-February 04 From: SoCal Mountains ... Member No.: 1,696 Region Association: None |
You drill slightly oversize, retap the hole with a bigger tap and insert the helicoil (esentially threads), which brings it back to the original size and screw original stud back in......you can get kits at your local FLAPS with the tap, installation tool and coils in a plastic box. CARQUEST sells RECOIL brand./
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lsimburger |
Dec 21 2005, 09:23 AM
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#19
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 26 Joined: 5-November 05 From: seattle, wa Member No.: 5,072 |
I followed various threads and they all seem to say going with the new mini starter is a plus. I just ordered mine after my orginal starter is giving me some warning signs of giving out. I have seen the thread about the mystery bolt so I got that one, but I have not seen anyone comment on the wiring connection when hooking up the new mini starter. Is it obvious and I don't need any tips? That would be refreshing. Is there anything else I should know about when installing the mini starter (saw the tip about checking the tranmission grounding strap)
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VaccaRabite |
Dec 21 2005, 09:50 AM
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#20
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En Garde! Group: Admin Posts: 13,445 Joined: 15-December 03 From: Dallastown, PA Member No.: 1,435 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
I am interested in adding a lighter starter to my car. I have not run it in the summer yet, but the PO (or the PPO, or the PPPO) had installed a hot start kit onto the car. I have the engine out now while I restore the car, and I'd like to replace all the stuff I can while the engine is out, rather then fish around once the engine is back in.
What model is the Nippondenso mini starter? I googled "Nippondenso mini starter" and it brought up some hits, but none for type 4 motors. Thanks guys, Zach |
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