Carbs on a completely stock 2.0L, does it work Options

[DanT]

So there is a lot of difference of opinion.
With a totally stock 2L engine including ignition, cam etc
do carbs work effectively?
More noticeable power?
Drivability?
MPG?
Worth the hassle?

let the games begin! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ar15.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/clap.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/boldblue.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/idea.gif)

Lets hear it.

[McMark]

Stock cam + carbs = (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/barf.gif)

Really worn out FI, replaced with carbs, can be an improvement, even with the stock cam.

[DanT]

Mark,
That is exactly the information I have gotten from another very reputable source.
Yet others seem to feel otherwise.

[Bleyseng]

stock cam+ carbs= sucks
more hp=not!
mpg=not!

sure it will run but suffers in the everywhere except partthrottle

the cam isn't for carbs

[McMark]

I'll concede, that if you take a SERIOUS amount of time and $ to set up the carbs (I'm talking WAY more than main and idle jets, here) you could get them to work pretty well.

I would question the cam in any "stock" engine that runs great with carbs. Call me a cynic.

[Trekkor]

Unless you don't have first hand experience, keep the barfing to a minimum (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool_shades.gif)

Albert Correia was running Webers on his 2.0 early last season...I don't know about the guts, but he was fast and always beat just about everybody on the a/x track.

This isn't the whole story though. He broke that motor and still wanted to play.

He literally slapped the same carbs on an old multi-year stored stock 1.8 and still wastes the field.

http://lpr.pca.org/ax/2005/lprax6/lprax6.htm

Given the chance, I will put dual 40's on my old 2.0 FOUR and run it hard.


KT

[DanT]

What cam would you suggest in an otherwise stock 2L with carbs?

[Bleyseng]

Ask Jake as he has several cams for carbs. Depends on where you wantthe powerband.

[McMark]

QUOTE

Unless you don't have first hand experience, keep the barfing to a minimum (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool_shades.gif)

Well the stock cam engines I've had carbs on, I can definitely say first hand that they ran like crap.

QUOTE

He literally slapped the same carbs on an old multi-year stored  stock 1.8 and still wastes the field.

If we're talking about first hand knowledge, you know first hand it was a stock 1.8?



Dan, what are you really trying to do here? Start a bloodbath? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ar15.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/chair.gif)

[DanT]

That was the general Idea Mark.
Kind of like the 4v6 debate.

I agree that unless you are there seeing an engine built you never really know what is in it.

Not to call anyone a "fibber" but we have all had occasion to run across cars that run way to well for what they are supposed to be. Yes the driver has a lot to do with it but so does the way the car is set up (including the motor and tranny)

comments?

Flames?

[Trekkor]

Keep it cool, boys (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/chatsmiley.gif)

All I'm saying is this: A well tuned stock F.I. will run very well. My 2.0 FOUR was proof of that.
Also, a well tuned carbed motor on a stock cam will also run very well.

Well tuned is the key here. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)

I believe what Albert told me was true and I have ridden in that car and watched him run many, many times.

It's no secret and no dispute that a carbed motor will run even better on a aftermarket grind.

[Bleyseng]

I have first hand experience with 40 Dells on a stock 2.0l. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/barf.gif)

I hated it so much (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/headbang.gif) I figured out how to put the Djet back on and make it work 6 years ago.


(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/mueba.gif)

[McMark]

Thinking more about Alberts 1.8 with carbs (40 IDFs I'm assuming). In a racing situation the large intakes will favor the top end and the timing can be adjusted for full throttle power. But I'm doubtful that that same engine would do well around town.

[Trekkor]

On a daily driver, yeah, it could be a bummer.

My experience is based on foot to the floor , dodging the cones.

Trying to get to work, in the cold, before the sun is up everyday, I got nuthin' (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/lol2.gif)



KT

[SirAndy]

stock engine + carbs = less power and much worse gas mileage.

that is compared to a well running stock FI. of course carbs will be better than a FI that isn't running. duh! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif)

stock cam sucks for carbs. as i said, you'll have less power and worse gasmileage.

now, if you put a more agressive aftermarket cam in there, carbs can *really* wake up your engine. big time.

bottom line, if you want to go carbs, you'll have to split the case and add a carb-friendly cam.
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beerchug.gif) Andy

[pfierb]

My 73 2.0 had 40idfs installed by the PO ....it was the worst running automobile that I have ever owned .....so bad in fact that I toyed with selling the car although it did make great backfiring sounds....no one could ever get the car to run right,including a local Porsche 4-cam (expert)...The po had saved the FI system so I had it reinstalled by ejm .....car is now a pleasure to drive great fun......Forget the carbs they are the pits.

[Tom Perso]

Ditch the stock FI, sell your carbs and buy a Megasquirt system... Duh!

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)

I had a 2056 that had a stock cam and 40 IDF's, it ran OK - but I had no baseline to compare it to. That car would bark the tires in 2nd gear, so it seemed pretty stout.

Tom

[maf914]

As usual, lot's of different opinions. So here is another. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)

I put a set of new 40 IDF's with a Facet fuel pump on a stock 2.0 and it ran fine. It had about the same power, and gas mileage, while not as good as with FI, was not bad. It still got 30+ mpg on the highway. This was a set of Webbers from CB, back when they were Claude's Buggies, with their recommended jetting for a 2.0 T4. I drove it like that for about 6 months before splitting the case and putting in a mild performance cam from Garretson, some head work, balance job and a few other mods. That did wake it up and it ran well like that for years. Oh, and it still got 30+ mpg on the highway.

When I hear stories that you can't make a stock T4 run with carbs, it makes me think that there are other issues involved. Just my opinion... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)

[rhodyguy]

what do you consider "less power and much worse mileage"? i've had to fill up no more often than other fi running cars. i get 27mpg during moderate freeway running. so fi cars get around 30? that's less than 50 miles per a 16 gallon tank fill. big deal.

"...no one could get the car to run right..." unfortunate.

my car runs just fine around town. in fact, it ran more than just fine stuck in santa barbara traffic during the terrible afternoon commute traffic.

my car has had no carb issues during my drives to california. 3 times. twice for the classics and one solo trip to arcata. not to mention more trips to portland than i can remember. whistler...i had no problem keeping up with other members with 2.0s and various fi setups on the flat ground nor climbing numerous grades. in fact...never mind.

i don't trailer my car. PERIOD!

a dual webered engine that sneezes, pops back through the carbs, goes BANG out the exhaust on decel, has other issues than the webers.

the garage is littered all the time with people having fi problems and it seems they are always chasing one damn thing or another.

i just chuckle to myself everytime the weber debate surfaces.

k

This post has been edited by rhodyguy: Dec 30 2005, 09:28 AM

[JoeSharp]

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/agree.gif) I'm with Kevin.
:PERMAGRIN: Joe