 Carbs on a completely stock 2.0L, does it work |
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| Trekkor |
 Jan 1 2006, 07:33 PM
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#41
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I do things...  Group: Members Posts: 7,809 Joined: 2-December 03 From: Napa, Ca Member No.: 1,413 Region Association: Northern California  |
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/icon_bump.gif)
That's it? Thread over? More ranting, please (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/mueba.gif) KT |
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| bd1308 |
Jan 1 2006, 07:54 PM
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#42
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Sir Post-a-lot Group: Members Posts: 8,020 Joined: 24-January 05 From: Louisville,KY Member No.: 3,501 |
progressives are awesome.
there we go. b |
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| r_towle |
Jan 1 2006, 08:51 PM
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#43
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,571 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States 
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I have a perfectly tuned FI system, its fine.
BUT If it werent for the re-classing penalty I would switch to dual webers in a nanosec.... they are cooler sounding, and alot more fun to tune that this archaic FI system with all the limitations... It is a 34 year old car...Carbs are appropriate and an easy way to liven up the motor with a different cam. You can get 140 hp with carbs...not with Djet...at least no one has yet... So I would do carbs...even if I have to wait... I dont wait for the volvo, or any of my other cars...but I cant run the twisties with those... I think carbs make the anticipation even better when you have to wait five minutes to beat the snot out of your car... If it was a daily driver I would say FI is the way to go. If its a toy, a fun toys to beat on, not a concourse car...I would say carbs are the most fun for the buck...as long as you can tune them yourself. I agree with an earlier post...if your car is bucking and spitting, you may have other problems... If you set up a set of carbs correctly, you will have a great running car. Rich |
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| Trekkor |
Jan 1 2006, 09:16 PM
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#44
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I do things... Group: Members Posts: 7,809 Joined: 2-December 03 From: Napa, Ca Member No.: 1,413 Region Association: Northern California |
It would be cool if someone had a very good running FI system. Dyno that...
Then put on the Webers and after tuning them precisely, dyno that, too. I'd love to see the results of that test. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool_shades.gif) KT |
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| DanT |
Jan 1 2006, 11:04 PM
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#45
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Going back to the Dark Side! Group: Members Posts: 4,300 Joined: 4-October 04 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 2,880 Region Association: None |
That is kind of what I was hoping to hear from some one Trekkor.
Up until then it is mostly conjecture... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif) be it personally informed or otherwise. I have it directly from an old school Porsche mechanic that the carbs do not do well with a stock cam motor. Yes, you can make it run...but is it really better than the FI or does it just sound better at some operating parameters. According to my source it is very tough to get the carbs to run efficiently at all parameters with a stock cam. That is why until I change the cam I will probably stay with the stock FI (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ohmy.gif) |
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| Bleyseng |
Jan 1 2006, 11:07 PM
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#46
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Aircooled Baby! Group: Members Posts: 13,034 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Seattle, Washington (for now) Member No.: 24 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
I think Jake has done this...... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/popcorn[1].gif)
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| Trekkor |
Jan 2 2006, 12:02 AM
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#47
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I do things... Group: Members Posts: 7,809 Joined: 2-December 03 From: Napa, Ca Member No.: 1,413 Region Association: Northern California |
I think that data *may* be secret (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/unsure.gif) Let's have some of that cam data, eh? lift and duration of the popular carb cams compared to stock. No? Didn't think so... Will trade for carbs KT |
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| DanT |
Jan 2 2006, 12:14 AM
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#48
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Going back to the Dark Side! Group: Members Posts: 4,300 Joined: 4-October 04 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 2,880 Region Association: None |
You will have to have your clearance checked Trekkor (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/poke.gif) Any gurus out there with the latest information that is not top secret for eyes only? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ph34r.gif) |
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| ws91420 |
Jan 2 2006, 12:14 AM
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#49
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Yes I have one a Lensley 914 Group: Members Posts: 2,063 Joined: 10-September 03 From: Ruther Glen,VA (halfway between sticks and civilization) Member No.: 1,137 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
I have switched to carbs with a stock FI cam. The only thing besides the carbs that isnt "stock" is the euro pistons. I think I have plenty of power and gas mileage isnt bad but I have calculated that out.
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| Trekkor |
Jan 2 2006, 12:21 AM
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#50
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I do things... Group: Members Posts: 7,809 Joined: 2-December 03 From: Napa, Ca Member No.: 1,413 Region Association: Northern California |
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)
Dan, what is John Seidell running? I can't remember. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif) KT ( that stick hurts, (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/poke.gif) ) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif) |
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| DanT |
Jan 2 2006, 12:37 AM
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#51
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Going back to the Dark Side! Group: Members Posts: 4,300 Joined: 4-October 04 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 2,880 Region Association: None |
John's car is a 4 with carbs. But I know nothing of the motor internals or size.
His car belonged to Tom Provassi years ago. He bought it from Tom after Tom bought the Orange Crate. I will have to ask him next time I see him. I guess KenH is thinking of a bigger motor with aftermarket fuel injection? The new rules will see lots of folks doing upgrades to their cars. A lot of assumptions that the rules will remain in effect for many years, I guess. I am still not convinced. Have you looked at the cars you will be competing against for next season in TT? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/headbang.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/headbang.gif) Sorry, sometimes I can't help myself. I would love to know more about the motor in Steve Neislony's car. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) |
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| Trekkor |
Jan 2 2006, 12:50 AM
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#52
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I do things... Group: Members Posts: 7,809 Joined: 2-December 03 From: Napa, Ca Member No.: 1,413 Region Association: Northern California |
Competiton will have to wait. Sure, I'll run for time.
I don't think I can beat anybody, yet. Steve runs carbs and race gas on a high compression 2.0. I think there is a short a/x video in my blog if you want to see and here from the passenger seat. I was *awful* and was using a handheld cam (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/splat.gif) KT As far as upgrades, I have my dreams. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif) |
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| grantsfo |
Jan 2 2006, 12:53 AM
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#53
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Arrrrhhhh! Group: Members Posts: 4,327 Joined: 16-March 03 Member No.: 433 Region Association: None |
According to Albert he had stock cam on his 1.8 with his carbs. The car was marginally faster than my 1.8 with FI. Albert and I had very similar setups - stock 1.8 with KH headers. I only beat him when I switched to hoosiers and he was on Kuhmos. When he went to Hoosiers he usually beat me a by a couple hundreths. He mostly beat me with his driving however I think his car was just a little faster than my FI 1.8.
Trekkor you would probably know if Alberts carbed car was faster as you have riden in both cars. |
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| Trekkor |
Jan 2 2006, 01:07 AM
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#54
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I do things... Group: Members Posts: 7,809 Joined: 2-December 03 From: Napa, Ca Member No.: 1,413 Region Association: Northern California |
I can't remember...
Both we're fast. A good example of two well prepared, good running cars with good drivers doing battle. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif) This is likely the best comparison we've discussed here. Same cc's, on the same tires, at the same venue running within fractions of a second. Good stuff. KT |
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| SirAndy |
Jan 2 2006, 01:41 PM
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#55
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,614 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
ok, i'll be the first to ask this dumb question then ... *if*, according to some "experts" here, carbs are just as good or (as most of you stated) even better than FI, why is it that newer cars *all* come with FI? even the *sportscars* ... why is it that the car industry claims better gas milage and increased HP on electronic FI cars due to better fuel control? what do you know that they don't know? and don't give me the "emission" (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/bs.gif) i'm not just talking emission-hell CA, but the rest of the world. how many modern, new, competitive racecars run on carbs? why aren't all cars still on carbs? what am i missing? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/popcorn[1].gif) Andy |
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| McMark |
Jan 2 2006, 01:50 PM
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#56
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914 Freak! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 20,179 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 419 Region Association: None |
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| anthony |
Jan 2 2006, 02:08 PM
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#57
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2270 club Group: Benefactors Posts: 3,107 Joined: 1-February 03 From: SF Bay Area, CA Member No.: 218  |
Raby proved that EFI put out more horsepower than carbs on the same engine:
http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/kitcarlson.htm I think D-Jet on a stock engine versus carbs on a stock engine is a coin toss and mostly dependent on how well either fuel delivery system is running. You can gain horsepower with carbs once you ditch the cam that was designed for D-Jet. You can even gain more power with an EFI setup and the right cam. |
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| Trekkor |
Jan 2 2006, 06:04 PM
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#58
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I do things... Group: Members Posts: 7,809 Joined: 2-December 03 From: Napa, Ca Member No.: 1,413 Region Association: Northern California |
As for the modern car argument. I won't get into that because these are not modern cars and they don't have modern F.I.
There are only a few people on this list that are running aftermarket F.I. I've only heard of a couple success stories. Most are having problems or still working the bugs out. The vast majority of the 914's still on the road with a stock motor are sporting the original F.I. bits. Many hundreds ( 1000's? ) of owners have switched over to some form of carbs. The Jake data quoted is for a 2500cc aftermarket F.I vs 44 IDF's. Interesting I'm sure, but not applicable to most 914 owners. ( the $15-20K factor ) this discussion was a stock 2.0 with D-jet F.I. vs Webers. I guess the reason this subject comes up so often, is because there are so many problems with people's stock set-up. It can be frustrating trying to get it to run well. New/reconditioned parts are pretty expensive. Troubleshooting the issues can be tough. All of the help questions on this forum proves that. KT |
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| DanT |
Jan 2 2006, 06:50 PM
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#59
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Going back to the Dark Side! Group: Members Posts: 4,300 Joined: 4-October 04 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 2,880 Region Association: None |
Modern EFI and 1974 EFI are two different animals almost as different as webers and djet.
Modern EFI is being monitored and adjusted hundreds of times per second, I doubt that is the situation with djet. Modern EFI can be adjusted and modded with a computer program, can djet? The issue is can webers (any carb) be used successfully with a stock cammed 2.0l motor. I am talking across the board drivability not just idle, full throttle or something in between. If someone can show me that a stock 2L can be just as tractable and drivable with no decrease in power or a modest increase in power, then I would consider switching to carbs now. If not then I would wait to switch when I do a cam change and other tweeks. |
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| Aaron Cox |
Jan 2 2006, 06:56 PM
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#60
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Professional Lawn Dart Group: Retired Admin Posts: 24,541 Joined: 1-February 03 From: OC Member No.: 219 Region Association: Southern California |
lawrence's aub car is a carbd car with stock cam.
a very smootth driving car. great throttle response, good power..... id venture to say the only thing it lost was a few mpg.... it was a well sorted setup with stock cam. why do you want to ditch FI on a stock motor???? you wont *GAIN* anything without a hot cam.....designed for carbs.... but...whatever floats your boat.... |
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