200 mph 914 Options

[horizontally-opposed]

Ah yes, but the 200-mph Camaro used to win the Silver State was a 1969, which surely had a far worse cd than late-model Camaros do.

And it would be smog exempt to boot. Of course, that thing was basically a tube-frame car. But I digress.

Frontal area is important to remember, not just drag...

[Porcharu]

Not a 914 but an example of how to go fast - I helped build a car for the old Silver State challenge back in the early 90's. We took a 83' Ford T-bird (a white previous Hertz rental car) put in a set of 2.47 rear end gears a T-5 trans that ran in 4th gear (1:1) for the run. The engine was a used stock HO 5.0 that we took apart and checked and set clearances and just put back together with new rings and bearings - it had about 50K miles on it. The shortblock was topped of with mildly ported stock heads with stock valves. This was combined with a mild Ford motorsports cam (B-303) and a GT-40 intake manifold, long tube headers and a Powerdyne blower set up to run a whopping 4 PSI, stock EFI was used. This engine probably made about 350HP. The car was not all that "fast feeling" on the street. On the first outing the car hit 184mph at around 5000 feet altitude.

The car used that engine for a few more years until it was pulled and replaced with a much more powerful 5.7l engine that had much better heads, big roller cam more boost etc. the car was now very quick feeling - actually scary fast on the street 60-100 happend almost as fast as you could press the fast pedal. It went 192mph in the same event that the mild 5.0 went 184.

Moral of the story? I don't really know. This particular car was aero limited at 192 and it was really pretty easy (and cheap) to go 184. I think you need to really think about the details to go really fast in anything.

[horizontally-opposed]

QUOTE (srbliss @ Jan 4 2006, 12:08 PM)

I think you need to really think about the details to go really fast in anything.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/agree.gif) Exactly.

I'd think about no side mirrors or maybe a 935 mirror on drivers side only, using the least aggressive front spoiler I could get away with (what would the stock pan do at 150+?!?!?), narrow 205-mm tires up front, the smoothest windshield trim possible, etc. Wonder what could be done UNDER the 914, too. At least one PCA/POC 914-6 has used an undertray with good results...

For power on the cheap (and maybe even for a big budget!), I think an SBC would be just about unbeatable for this application. Radiator hole would be a bummer, though. Definitely cover the foglight holes in the front bumper...

[TimT]

You can approach the break the 200 mph barrier a few ways.. all cost lot of money. like modifying an exiting tub with all the tricks to make so that its easier to punch through the air using the least hp. Or by throwing lots of hp at it. The car I often drive is a 935 clone with massive rubber, big squared off 934/gtu flares, a big rear wing, open windows.. We have 800 hp available. The first time I broke 200 I didnt even know it untill I reviewed the data logs. We have since regeared the car so that all gears can be used on the tracks we typically drive on.

I bet you can give up alot of the aero aids we need on our car (we have to turn), and with enough space, and the right gearing, 200 shouldnt be to hard to achieve.

Do you want to go 200 on a closed course racetrack? or somewhere like Bonneville.. that will dictate which path you take

[Maltese Falcon]

Harold (?) Von Ks car was way ahead of its time in POC racing in the 70's -80's. He was running red class, when I was starting out in DE.
Real basic management, mfi fuel injection, huge intercooler and huge Garretts off of an 18 wheeler truck, and that huge "Ports o'call" intake scoop. It did wail down the backstraight of RIR and ran just as well or better than the rich guys 935 (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)
The engine was not its weakpoint...it was the transaxle. The 915 gearbox was usually opened and gearsets being swapped. The torque of the engine was shearing the teeth off the gears.
I believe that the car today is restored back to its Kremer GT origins.
Going 200+ sustained mph in a 914 today ? Hook up with a knowledgeable dry-lake vehicle builder. Spend some time in a wind tunnel. A car with a VW beetle type floorpan will hand you your a$$ at those speeds. But it can be done.
Marty

[sixnotfour]

VonK

[airsix]

For the benefit of those who haven't seen the car it's too bad that picture doesn't show the two HUGE snorkels very clearly. It made it very unique looking. I would have loved to have seen that car beating 935s.

-Ben M.

[Aaron Cox]

so i google turbbo 914...

and get this monstrosity!
(IMG:http://www.safie.com/_911/914trunkbay.jpg)

[bondo]

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Jan 4 2006, 10:54 PM)

so i google turbbo 914... and get this monstrosity!

Haha, that's hilarious! I like the insulation on the trunk lid! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/chairfall.gif)

[Aaron Cox]

and the vented rear panel! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)

[MattR]

my speedo says 120 mph. thats as fast as i can go (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/blog-1119307850.jpg)

[airsix]

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Jan 4 2006, 09:54 PM)

so i google turbbo 914... and get this monstrosity!

Now all my "wasn't clean enough" feelings about my own turbo install have just melted away. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)
-Ben M.

[YksKrad]

Sorry I was reading and decided to toss in my $0.02, which prolely should mostly be ignored since I know jack about going fast.

Drag sounds like it'll be an issue. I remember hearing that the saleen s7 achievieves a lower drag coeffiecient by ducting air flow thru the car. Maybe this could be done with a 914. Lets face it, the front end on a 914 is relatively flat... Maybe cutting holes in the front end and ducting airflow out the sides and rear would be a good option.

These air channels could also be used to cool the engine...

And maybe one large radiator is not the way to go, but maybe split the cooling system with dual radiators... similar to the ones www.naerc.com offers for their diablo replicas.

[dwillouby]

I might try some mods with my street 914 V8. Before I build another. Its got about 370 hp. It will run up to 150 with more possible. But it gets very light feeling. I know I need more down force. Any reccomendations on what seems to work for a driver not a race car?
Thanks
David

[horizontally-opposed]

Sound like you need to cancel lift before worrying about downforce.

The 996 GT3 RS and GT2 modesl used front bumpers with air outlets on their top surfaces, air coming through the central intake then vented upward instead of downward and this was a real benefit in Weissach's windtunnel testing.

Several 914s have had radiators ducted (usually unscientifically) in a similar way, usually with a much larger hole in the front hood with a giant duct system. If it was done right, I bet this -- along with the right rear wing -- would solve the 914's issues entirely...

But who's gonna pay for the windtunnel time to get it truly right...with minimum drag?

pete

[lapuwali]

I think on a "budget", the key is simply to keep lift to a reasonable level, and overcome any induced drag with more power. Power is easier to get and measure than drag using the commonly available tools. With a turbo V8, as proposed, 500-800hp should be readily available, so drag shouldn't be a huge problem. Lift and aerodynamic stablity, however, will be.

In the 50s and 60s cars were just touching 200mph at LeMans, and generally wind tunnels weren't used. However, even into the 90s, cars were dangerously unstable at those speeds, even when (presumably) designed by professional aerodynamicists with millions of dollars in tools available to them.

[YksKrad]

Another thought, the area behind the rear window is a vacum correct? At speed air cannot fill the void fast enough... That would cause the air under the car to push up (actually it always will push up just nothing will be pushing down with a vacum above it Chem-101) reduceing down force on the rear wheels, and also would result in increased drag... Perhaps a slopeing design of either plexi or sheet aluminium. You could then remove the rear trunk lid as well. You could test this on your current V8

Also remember a 200 mph car isn't necissarilly getting there fast. Keep as small of a clutch on as possible, same with brakes. Big breaks and clutch are good for speeding up and slawing down fast, but that isn't exactly necissary on the salt flats.