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> Paging Mueller, Bowlsby, Bleyseng and Jaroen
Bartlett 914
post Jan 13 2006, 03:30 PM
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The last part looks like it could be made by modifing a set screw. What are the ID and OD diameters?

I can measure the diaphram in vickers if wanted. We use vickers for measuring the hardness of copper cylinders used in printing. I would need an old diaphram for that.

Mark
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Katmanken
post Jan 13 2006, 05:21 PM
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There is usually a conversion chart or equation for these testers so Vickers shouldn't be a problem.

Is the copper you test hard or soft?

Ken
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Bleyseng
post Jan 13 2006, 09:07 PM
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I don't see how the center part can be taken apart but I'll try tomorrow at the shop. I have NO tools here at home tonight. Actually, I have a extra small screwdriver that I just stabbed myself with trying to pry it apart. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/headbang.gif)
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r_towle
post Jan 13 2006, 09:11 PM
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I will try tommorow also....it didnt grow like that, so it has to be able to come apart....

Rich
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Bleyseng
post Jan 13 2006, 09:13 PM
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yeah, witha BFH and a drift! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smash.gif)

I was over at the shop after work today but I can get internet when the neighbors turn on their wireless so I can steal it! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/clap.gif)
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JeffBowlsby
post Jan 13 2006, 09:24 PM
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The center fixture and pressure ring do not come apart. I tried to cut the ring off with a dremel, no worky. Tried to separate them with a chisel...ruined the chisel.

Don't bother, they need to be fabbed new.

Trust me on this one. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/dry.gif)
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Bleyseng
post Jan 13 2006, 10:56 PM
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I am going to cut one apart in the morning with a metal chopsaw for fun. They look like they are pressed together with a 20 ton press.... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/dry.gif)
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Bleyseng
post Jan 14 2006, 06:07 PM
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Here is a diaphram cut apart.....damn, I don't see how you can take it apart nor how its put together. Stamped with a press I guess.... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/sad.gif)


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r_towle
post Jan 14 2006, 09:07 PM
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Take a few close ups please...

Side view, I cant see it the way you took the pics...

Rich
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Bleyseng
post Jan 14 2006, 11:17 PM
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Here's another...

The "C" shaped clip is pressed on and then the assembly is stamped to lock it in place. There is no way I can see to reuse these parts.


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r_towle
post Jan 14 2006, 11:28 PM
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personally I am not thinking of re-use...

I guess we would need to build it similar to have the same weight/ flex properties, and a vacuum seal....

We could make one piece and solder the diaphram onto it...

Or we could make two pieces that are threaded together..little bit of silicone to ensure a tight seal...

Please measure the inside dimension of the hole in the diaphram so we have that number...

Rich
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Bleyseng
post Jan 14 2006, 11:55 PM
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Tomorrow I will as its across town to the shop (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/headbang.gif)
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Bartlett 914
post Jan 15 2006, 11:38 AM
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[QUOTE]There is usually a conversion chart or equation for these testers so Vickers shouldn't be a problem.

Is the copper you test hard or soft?


The Copper we use is in the 200 250 vicker range. The instrument I use is a Leitz Durimet with a Mini Load Hardenss tester.

I don't know how this metal will harden compared to copper. In copper, you soften it by heating then quickly cooling which is the opposite of steel. To harden, I imagine heating to a spefic temperature temperature and cooling at a some determined slow rate.

As for measuring the deflection, I would make a mounting fixture and measuring the deflection with a dial indicator with a weight applied. I would also do this with 3 different weights to insure the amount of deflection throught the full range is correct.

Mark
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r_towle
post Jan 15 2006, 02:25 PM
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Cool,
would you volunteer to test the diaphram for hardness.

Rich
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Bartlett 914
post Jan 15 2006, 08:05 PM
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[QUOTE] Cool,
would you volunteer to test the diaphram for hardness.


No problem. PM me and I will give you an address. I would be willing to help or make a test fixture for measuring the deflection. I would need a good one for a reference. I would return this undamaged.

Mark
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Bleyseng
post Jan 15 2006, 09:20 PM
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I can supply a good diaphram and a junk one (pieces) for testing.

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Addy??
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r_towle
post Jan 16 2006, 01:20 PM
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Progress...I love progress..

So, we have a drawing under way...Geoff, please post the inner diameter of the hole in the diaphram...

And we have a hardness test going on...

Now, how do we verify the actual material...

Correct me if I am wrong...the patent documents do not declare the material???

Does anyone have any contacts at Bosch we could ask for a clear answer??

Oh, and on the inner screw retention part,,,I propose a two piece deal, it could be designed to be a threaded piece that gets screwed through the diaphram..
It would make assembly easier..

We just need to design the piece to be the same shape/material as the original to ensure we have the same reaction properties in the new assembly...

Did that make any sense at all?

Rich
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Bleyseng
post Jan 16 2006, 08:12 PM
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Katmanken
post Jan 16 2006, 09:55 PM
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It's an effin spring...

So you need:
1. Material-
2. Material Thickness- makes a big difference on rate
3. Similar diaphragm dimensions
4. Heat treat for durability-forming issues.

For a quick and dirty material properties calc, cut a strip, measure the width, and thickness. Clamp in a vise and Measure the distance from the wall to the point where the force will be applied. Add weight or force and measure the deflection.

Calculate the modulus of elasticity and look up material.

Use the cantilever deflection equation to calculate the modulus...

deflection= load*length^3 (cubed)/
3* modulus* width *(height^3 (cubed)/12)

There ya go... Won't be exact but I bet it will get you within 85% of the correct value.
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Demick
post Jan 17 2006, 10:45 PM
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OK. I got the diaphragm from Jeff today. This is the first one I have seen (except for in pictures). I was very surprised at how small the stamped pleates are in this diaphragm. They seem much smaller than they seem from other pictures. Especially the outermost (widest) pleat. It's probably only 3 or 4 mils tall, and is barely even discernable as a pleat.


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