 914 V8 / 930 trans progress, Running so so well!!! |
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| MikeP |
 Jan 25 2006, 05:31 PM
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#21
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Member  Group: Members Posts: 321 Joined: 13-June 05 From: San Jose, CA Member No.: 4,268  |
That picture was before the addition of the assist spring. I'll take a picture of that tonight and post tommorrow.
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| wbergtho |
Jan 25 2006, 05:52 PM
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#22
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,314 Joined: 28-April 03 From: Roberts, WI Member No.: 623 |
Hi Mike P,
Thanks for th input and pic. I like how you hooked up your clutch arm on the driver's side and pull it with a cable (stock 911 I bet). That is exactly how I actuated my 915 and I don't see a problem doing it again. Did you fabricate your cable shift system and if so...please expound alittle for me. And more pics would be awesome...Thankyou. Bill |
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| MikeP |
Jan 26 2006, 01:40 PM
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#23
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Member Group: Members Posts: 321 Joined: 13-June 05 From: San Jose, CA Member No.: 4,268 |
spring assist linkage
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| MikeP |
Jan 26 2006, 01:40 PM
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#24
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Member Group: Members Posts: 321 Joined: 13-June 05 From: San Jose, CA Member No.: 4,268 |
spring
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| MikeP |
Jan 26 2006, 01:45 PM
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#25
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Member Group: Members Posts: 321 Joined: 13-June 05 From: San Jose, CA Member No.: 4,268 |
I was originally going to go Hydraulic but this setup was the product of discussions with Chris at Bauer P Repair in Oakland. He did the fab on the cable and spring set-up after we disected my old 915 setup which was a Jaide system using pulleys and a passenger side lever. If you want to go this rout I'll get the car in the air again and give you some detailed fab pictures and I can dig up the part numbers etc. It is all 911 stuff.
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| byndbad914 |
Jan 26 2006, 09:31 PM
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#26
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shoehorn and some butter - it fits Group: Members Posts: 1,547 Joined: 23-January 06 From: Broomfield, CO Member No.: 5,463 Region Association: None |
let's see if I can figure out how to attach some images... new to this forum.
I have a boxter cable shifter in my 914 V8/flipped 930 car. I bought 5/16" cables from McMaster-Carr. Paid $150 for the shifter and around $200 give or take for the cables. Some rod ends, and custom linkage pieces I made myself, and the shifting is SWEET. Probably say $500 in the deal for scrap metal and fittings. Notchy as hell, but that is how 930s are. But absolutely no vague feel. If I want 3rd, I can select and slam it in 3rd no question/worry. Also, by using studs, rod ends and spacers where the cables attach, if I want a tighter pattern, I just machine some new spacers to tighten it up. You will see that I have a piece that is attached to the arm to move that cable forward. Upon installation, I intended to use the arm only (orange piece), but when I shifted to 2nd, the cables would intersect each other before I could engage the gear, so I added a spacer (silver) and another piece (yellow) to space that cable forward to circumvent that issue. Looks hooptie, but works way better than any Renegade garb I have felt. As I do this tube car, I will weld the spacer and yellow adapter piece to make the ear one piece (just bolted right now, but that is fine of course, just not "clean") You will need access to a lathe though and a plasma cutter makes cutting strap easier. I have a friend that I abuse (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif) Some not so great, but maybe helpful shots exist on my website http://www.geocities.com/byndbad914 May help to show how I used 3 rod ends and some 1/2" steel round to more or less bell crank the shifting to put the H-pattern the correct way (not upside down like a lot of mechanical linkages have). All the brackets welded to my custom trans mounts and frankly, that fab work is really easy if you have even a modicum of fabrication skill. I am an engineer which means "stupid from the elbows down", so can't be that bad (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) |
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| byndbad914 |
Jan 26 2006, 09:31 PM
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#27
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shoehorn and some butter - it fits Group: Members Posts: 1,547 Joined: 23-January 06 From: Broomfield, CO Member No.: 5,463 Region Association: None |
how the fro do you add a freakin' image on this forum??? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/WTF.gif)
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| Lou W |
Jan 26 2006, 09:49 PM
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#28
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"Here Kitty Kitty" my ass...... Group: Members Posts: 4,109 Joined: 9-May 04 From: Roseburg, OR. Member No.: 2,039 Region Association: Spain |
You have pm explainig how. Drive-ability, that sure is a nice car. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif) |
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| byndbad914 |
Jan 27 2006, 03:34 PM
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#29
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shoehorn and some butter - it fits Group: Members Posts: 1,547 Joined: 23-January 06 From: Broomfield, CO Member No.: 5,463 Region Association: None |
try this again... last time I browsed the image, couldn't preview it. so I just attached and hit reply and it didn't work. We'll try it one more time...
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| MikeP |
Jan 27 2006, 03:37 PM
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#30
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Member Group: Members Posts: 321 Joined: 13-June 05 From: San Jose, CA Member No.: 4,268 |
Looks a lot like mine.
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| byndbad914 |
Jan 27 2006, 03:46 PM
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#31
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shoehorn and some butter - it fits Group: Members Posts: 1,547 Joined: 23-January 06 From: Broomfield, CO Member No.: 5,463 Region Association: None |
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/hijacked.gif)
sorry to hijack the thread, but hopefully this is of some help to others out there thinking of fabbing their own linkage.. The tan piece is simply lathed from steel. On the bottom side (not shown) I have two holes 1.) an 8mm tapped hole back at the taper that the original Porsche taper pin screws into to secure the tan piece to the trans shifting shaft. 2.) The slot in the red piece is so the front-back adapter can slip on the tan piece. A 5/16" stud protrudes through that slot and screws into the tan piece. Ultimately there are two cables coming off of the stock boxter/late model anything cable shift tower. The front to back cable is bolted through the series of rod ends (to reverse the input direction) to the yellow extension. The front to back shifting is transferred to the transmission through shear in the stud through the slot feature. The second cable is attached with a rod end to the stud out of the tan piece. That controls side to side motion for selecting the H pattern (Rev-1-3). Therefore all input to the trans is through that one stud via direct input (H) and shear (back/forth). I don't sprechen zie deutch too well, so I used 5/16" US threads 'cause the cables and components are easier to find than a metric equivalent. Lastly, the hole out at the end of the orange piece fits over a 1/2" bolt shank that I screwed into my mount features. It add support to hold the red/orange assembly (which would otherwise be free to rotate). Notice it rides on the shank (smooth) part of the bolt not the threads. First cut was to try some all-thread I had laying around the garage and as expected, it chattered and caught here and there. Again, check the site for some pics. I will be updating my site over the next couple months while I do the tube car and will get some better shots of this stuff during that timeframe. Sounds hooptie, but works really well, I promise. |
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| byndbad914 |
Jan 27 2006, 03:49 PM
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#32
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shoehorn and some butter - it fits Group: Members Posts: 1,547 Joined: 23-January 06 From: Broomfield, CO Member No.: 5,463 Region Association: None |
Mike,
Is your H pattern standard, or upside down? If it is standard, then the "reversal" of input motion must be in your shift tower, and maybe that is where the vagueness is derived. seems like the Renegade one I felt in another car was correct orientation, but it seemed vague to me. Or is yours pretty precise? If so, who's kit is that? YOu might have said earlier, but just in case... |
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| MikeP |
Jan 27 2006, 05:12 PM
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#33
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Member Group: Members Posts: 321 Joined: 13-June 05 From: San Jose, CA Member No.: 4,268 |
Check the 915 thread, I've been bouncing back and forth.
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| drive-ability |
Jan 27 2006, 07:50 PM
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#34
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,169 Joined: 18-March 05 From: Orange County, California Member No.: 3,782 |
I am glad you chimed in! Honestly I am not real happy with how my trans shifts. I know the heavy nature of a 930 but I have trouble finding gears and or the linkage becoming almost stiff. From one day to the next its never the same. I really think its the Renegade linkages, I think there should be something in the rear to cover the cable movement when its shifting from front to back (1st to 2nd and 3rd to 4th). There is a distance traveled and that isn't tuned into the system. That movement pulls on the other cable and may be the problem. Your linkages have that covered well. Any thoughts? |
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| byndbad914 |
Jan 30 2006, 04:13 PM
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#35
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shoehorn and some butter - it fits Group: Members Posts: 1,547 Joined: 23-January 06 From: Broomfield, CO Member No.: 5,463 Region Association: None |
sorry for the late response...spent the weekend disassembling the car at the chassis shop! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smash.gif) Can't wait... they start cutting this week.
Anyway, my thoughts are this... The 930 is notchy no matter what, just the nature of the beast. Not to be confused with vague of course... they are definitely not vague, but still a bitch to shift fast 2-3 or 3-2. The bigger differences between mine and the Renegade (from what I can tell in pix and I felt a couple years ago) are these: 1. I bring the R-1-3 "H" selecting cable in completely perpendicular to the shaft in the trans. When shifting 1-2 or 3-4, the cable end still has to move side to side, but there is no "push or pull" on the cable that you would have from coming in at an angle (looking at MikeP's post, it appears that cable comes in at a bit of an angle from the bracket). Any angularity will begin adding push or pull (depending on whether going from 1-2 or 2-1). The more of this push/pull effect you have, the vaguer (is that a word (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif) - I conjugate my own from time to time) the shifting will be. 2. There is no adjustability for pattern, it is direct to the shaft. A little offset by using the studs and the "rod end reversal" like I did makes it nice to tune the pattern to what you like to "feel". No offset is just a super tight pattern on the "H", but the fore/aft stuff is 1:1 which I would think would be kind of a long throw. If they used a short shifting handle to make this tighter, the H would tighten up as well. Long throw with a tight H would feel vague to me too since it makes it hard to tell whether you selected 3rd in the H or if you are going for 1st. You gotta have some H pattern... long description.. short review: I can adjust the H by moving the cable up and down the stud - closer to the shift rod is tighter, spaced away is a bigger H. Fore and aft, if I shorten the linkage between the cable and the swivel rod end, tighter fore/aft (and more effort is required). Right now I am definitely NOT 1:1, but much tighter fore/aft, but do have some offset to broaden the H up so I can tell where 3rd v. 1st is. 3. None of their inputs are in the exact direction of motion... the fore and aft selection is angled from the bracket - mine is truly parallel to the input shaft. Their's will induce some side to side motion in your fore/aft selection = vague feeling. Again, the H isn't perpendicular, so vague. Even the slightest pulls "on paper" are really quite noticeable in reality. Classic engineering example I deal with every day here at work... "the side to side push/pull is only .030", so no big deal" to which I respond "multiplied by a 4" shift handle input = .120", basically 1/8". You wouldn't feel the .030" at the trans, but you definitely feel the 1/8" in your right hand ." Drive-ability, you are in OC and my car is being worked on in Orange near the circle off Chapman. I have the engine and trans out of the car sitting behind it right now. I will be there next Saturday afternoon to remove the interior while they cut out the floorpan... let me know if you would like to swing by and see the stuff personally. Maybe it will help you out. |
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| drive-ability |
Jan 31 2006, 01:29 AM
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#36
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,169 Joined: 18-March 05 From: Orange County, California Member No.: 3,782 |
That post says it all, my shift linkage moves in a lot of directions before in-gaging. I found the ratio in the fore/aft to be a problem. There wasn't enough mechanical leverage applied with the 930 trans. For now I increased the leverage with great results. I can now find the gears and would say its at about 90%. I do like your design especially at the transmission. I would like to see your set up, let me know about Satruday.... John |
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| byndbad914 |
Jan 31 2006, 01:53 PM
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#37
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shoehorn and some butter - it fits Group: Members Posts: 1,547 Joined: 23-January 06 From: Broomfield, CO Member No.: 5,463 Region Association: None |
PM me with your number if you wish. I will know more about the timeframe I will be there as the week draws on... definitely plan on early afternoon as a "for sure", but I don't know if he is going to get there at 11AM or noon or ?? Saturday hours are strictly up to AJ (the owner) - they aren't "posted" hours...
Heck, if anyone else in the OC area really wants to see what a mess I can make of a 914 can PM me too. I will have to ask AJ if it is okay if I get a bunch of PMs, but if I get a couple, no problem for sure. I won't have a lot of time to talk since I need to be working (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smash.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/sawzall-smiley.gif) , where is the bloody knuckles smiley... that is what we need, a bloody knuckles smiley (my hands are carved up from last Saturday's thrash)... but would show you guys the mess and meet a couple fellow teeners for sure. I know that even seeing someone's crazy ideas is good if you are doing a similar project; I looked at every V8 914 and Pantera I could find before starting mine. |
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| byndbad914 |
Feb 7 2006, 05:21 PM
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#38
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shoehorn and some butter - it fits Group: Members Posts: 1,547 Joined: 23-January 06 From: Broomfield, CO Member No.: 5,463 Region Association: None |
this is going to be brutal adding one pic at a time...
can more than one pic be attached to a post???? Can they be previewed to know how big they are going to be. Right now, my pics are more like a grenade and I never know what is going to happen until after I pull the pin... otherwise, here is a series of pics of my stuff disassembled somewhat, but you will all get the idea. Before you look like this (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/av-943.gif) and do a couple of these (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/screwy.gif) and a (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/blink.gif) , I promise this worked very well. It was notchy, but that is a 930 thing. The point is it was precise and I knew when I was going for 2nd and when I was going for 4th. And NO I didn't have a few of these during the machining process (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beer.gif) Hope this helps some of you guys in your quest for clean shifting cable boxes... I just realized I forgot to take pics of the shifter itself, but it is just a late model cable tower (boxter - mine was a 6spd knob so maybe 996/997? They are basically the same tower, just a different shift knob to match the trans pattern) Attached image(s) 
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| byndbad914 |
Feb 7 2006, 05:22 PM
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#39
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shoehorn and some butter - it fits Group: Members Posts: 1,547 Joined: 23-January 06 From: Broomfield, CO Member No.: 5,463 Region Association: None |
adf
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| byndbad914 |
Feb 7 2006, 05:22 PM
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#40
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shoehorn and some butter - it fits Group: Members Posts: 1,547 Joined: 23-January 06 From: Broomfield, CO Member No.: 5,463 Region Association: None |
asfd
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