Anyone have an opinion re: 914/Subaru conversions?, i.e. what are the pros/cons Options

[plymouth37]

check out turbo914.com for more info on my subie 914 and renegade's kit.

[McMark]

Those motors are so cool!!!!

[carreraguy]

QUOTE (neo914-6 @ Feb 12 2006, 09:18 PM)

'76 will require more smog conformance...

Felix - if you are referring to my potential candidate for the Suby swap, it's a pre-76 914; definitely don't want smogging hassles. Although, Renegade tells me the Suby would pass CA smog anyway - don't expect it would pass the visual though. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

[cbenitah]

Interesting reading...

I would like a figure.. Does anyone have a quote from a shop on how much a suby would cost to do?

Is it 6K with labor?

Renegade, only option for a conversion or will there be more?

looking forward for more info!

[Andyrew]

www.rennegadehybrids.com

they primarily do v8's... incase you didnt know.

Kennedy's got adapters for everything. (kennedy engineering products)

[mrdezyne]

QUOTE (grantsfo @ Feb 12 2006, 11:23 AM)

So you would be draging around close to 200 lbs more with 30 hp less in a Suby powered 914 compared to the Elise. If I was going to do a Non-Porsche engine conversion I would definitely go for a newer generation 2.5 turbo from the WRX.

QUOTE

After seeing what that Lotus felt like, I decided if I could get anywhere close to that feeling I'd be happy. Throw in your turbo setup to bump up that HP range and you really have a screamer in nostalgic 914 clothing.....

I agree, thats why I mentioned the turbo setup. However I will be happy for the time being to at least double my ponies, and have a flat torque curve for around $2500.

[WRX914]

I am in the middle of an extensive rebuild, but I will give you the #'s on just the engine swap. I got my engine (WRX 2.0 Turbo) for $1,500 in 2004. (The engine is a 2004 with 4k miles) Then, Dana at Renegade bought his 9same)engine from the same guy... He bought his for around $1,300 and his is also a 2004 but his had only 400 miles. You have to figure another $500 for the wiring harness and ECU. Another $3k for Renegades kit and radiator. So you can get into this conversion for around $5k for parts only. If you use the same dude Dana and I did.

[mrdezyne]

I guess thats where I saved a bundle, you have to shop around to find your engine, however mine is N/A and not a turbo.

2004 EJ25 w/ 14k and ECU+ harness for $1100

[MattR]

My two cents,

You own a 914 for the feel of it, not the performance. Top down, engine growling, etc. I think you can only get that experience with a noisy, rough type 4 or flat six. Its an aircooled trait and its what makes these cars cool.

If you want sheer performance, get a boxster. They're chick cars, they dont feel fun, but they're much faster. Putting a sube in a 914 will yield a faster car then a type 4 powered 914, but you're putting new technology in a 30+ year old chassis and sacrificing what (in my opinion) makes 914s fun.

[mrdezyne]

Go here and check out the video, this is a great reason to do the Suby turbo swap!!!!

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=...f=2&t=42759&hl=

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/pray.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/driving.gif)

[Mueller]

QUOTE (MattR @ Feb 13 2006, 10:24 AM)

My two cents, You own a 914 for the feel of it, not the performance. Top down, engine growling, etc. I think you can only get that experience with a noisy, rough type 4 or flat six. Its an aircooled trait and its what makes these cars cool. If you want sheer performance, get a boxster. They're chick cars, they dont feel fun, but they're much faster. Putting a sube in a 914 will yield a faster car then a type 4 powered 914, but you're putting new technology in a 30+ year old chassis and sacrificing what (in my opinion) makes 914s fun.

what also makes these cars cool is the ability to easily modify them to step up to modern specs and enjoy the benifits of such (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

with that additude, you might as well sell your 914 and get a Ford Model T complete with engine starting hand crank (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)

[Porcharu]

QUOTE (MattR @ Feb 13 2006, 09:24 AM)

My two cents, You own a 914 for the feel of it, not the performance. Top down, engine growling, etc. I think you can only get that experience with a noisy, rough type 4 or flat six. Its an aircooled trait and its what makes these cars cool. If you want sheer performance, get a boxster. They're chick cars, they dont feel fun, but they're much faster. Putting a sube in a 914 will yield a faster car then a type 4 powered 914, but you're putting new technology in a 30+ year old chassis and sacrificing what (in my opinion) makes 914s fun.

My $0.02
I have a 914 for one reason - it' fun to drive. It will be MORE fun to drive with more power and a sweet shifting transmission. It would be really fun hearing the turbo screaming with the roof off, but that will have to wait a bit. My type 4 ran pretty good - better than my daily driver Volvo.
I hope to drive mine 5-8K a year and work on the car when I wan't to not because I have to.
I don't want to hack up my "vintage air cooled car" for the swap so I'm spending more time and figuring out how to do it without cutting up the car.
I think using the drivetrain from a new car in the 914 is a great use of the only good part of new cars.
When this swap is done I might commit some real air-cooled blasphamy and swap a Suby engine and trans into a VW van. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/rocking nana.gif)

[Trekkor]

I enjoyed that video!

If I didn't find my SIX at such a low price it would be pretty tough to pass on a low cost, modern, high output engine.

Face it, the type IV is a motor that is very expensive.
The lowest rebuild prices are close to the COMPLETE Soob convert.

If you opt for the 200hp Type IV...$15k plus. I won't do that. Sorry if that offends. It's my opinion.

Didn't someone say they could do the Subie conversion and have a garage full of back-up motors for the price of a MassIVe FOUR?

If the only negative is exclusion from competing with a PCA class, what's the big deal?


KT

[McMark]

QUOTE (cbenitah @ Feb 13 2006, 01:01 AM)

Interesting reading... I would like a figure.. Does anyone have a quote from a shop on how much a suby would cost to do? Is it 6K with labor? Renegade, only option for a conversion or will there be more? looking forward for more info!

I think you're right on Christopher.

If someone walked in my door and asked for a subie swap, I would probably quote them $5k - $6k in labor. That would include:

1. Custom engine mount bar.
2. Custom radiator setup.
3. Additional gauges.
4. Conversion wiring harness.
5. Any necessary body modifications.
6. All the little fit/finish items.

[Mueller]

QUOTE (McMark @ Feb 13 2006, 12:24 PM)

QUOTE (cbenitah @ Feb 13 2006, 01:01 AM) Interesting reading... I would like a figure.. Does anyone have a quote from a shop on how much a suby would cost to do? Is it 6K with labor? Renegade, only option for a conversion or will there be more? looking forward for more info! I think you're right on Christopher. If someone walked in my door and asked for a subie swap, I would probably quote them $5k - $6k in labor. That would include: 1. Custom engine mount bar. 2. Custom radiator setup. 3. Additional gauges. 4. Conversion wiring harness. 5. Any necessary body modifications. 6. All the little fit/finish items.

ummmmm...Mark he said with labor....not in addition to (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

currently the suby motors are "disposable" but what about the consumables such as starters (if using suby transmission) clutches and waterpumps and tune up items?

one of these days if I had $4K to $5K land in my lap all at one time, I'd consider a suby swap....

[alpha434]

QUOTE (MattR @ Feb 13 2006, 09:24 AM)

My two cents, You own a 914 for the feel of it, not the performance. Top down, engine growling, etc. I think you can only get that experience with a noisy, rough type 4 or flat six. Its an aircooled trait and its what makes these cars cool. If you want sheer performance, get a boxster. They're chick cars, they dont feel fun, but they're much faster. Putting a sube in a 914 will yield a faster car then a type 4 powered 914, but you're putting new technology in a 30+ year old chassis and sacrificing what (in my opinion) makes 914s fun.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/agree.gif)

Why go to the bother of running water lines and all the crap involved when you could probably find a V-8 for just a little bit over the cost of a suby and just have to do the same thing over. How long would you be happy with whatever menial hp you're getting from a suby boxer engine. How long did it take you to get tired of the menial hp of a type IV?

I'm a purist. Get a 6 if you're tired. They're cool and fun and more noisy than anyone will ever need (especially a cheap little "T") You wouldn't have to run water lines or some exotic ecu. Just a distributor and a carburator.

Or get a boxster. Matt is right. Total chic car. And very fast.

[Crazyhippy]

QUOTE (MattR @ Feb 13 2006, 09:24 AM)

My two cents, You own a 914 for the feel of it, not the performance. Top down, engine growling, etc. I think you can only get that experience with a noisy, rough type 4 or flat six. Its an aircooled trait and its what makes these cars cool. If you want sheer performance, get a boxster. They're chick cars, they dont feel fun, but they're much faster. Putting a sube in a 914 will yield a faster car then a type 4 powered 914, but you're putting new technology in a 30+ year old chassis and sacrificing what (in my opinion) makes 914s fun.

Ever driven one? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif)

BJH

[TonyAKAVW]

If someone were set up with the right tools and plans, all of the following could easily be made in a single day:

Engine support bar
Radiator shroud and mount (for engine bay)
Alternator bracket
Exhaust system
Body modifications

Pretty much everything else can be purchased off the shelf. Properly modifying a Subaru wiring harness would take a lot of time. There's so much to do on it, and each model year is different that it seems it would be tricky for a shop to do this cost effectively.


-Tony

[TonyAKAVW]

QUOTE

Why go to the bother of running water lines and all the crap involved when you could probably find a V-8 for just a little bit over the cost of a suby and just have to do the same thing over. How long would you be happy with whatever menial hp you're getting from a suby boxer engine. How long did it take you to get tired of the menial hp of a type IV?

Maybe i should just list the reasons why one might choose a Suabru over a V8.

1. Weight. Subaru engine is lighter than a Type IV, let alone a V8. Mass is distributed better. Flat vs. V.

2. Less torque. Means longer life of transmission, CV joints, and the use of all 5 gears. (all this can be fixed with a V8, but it costs A LOT)

3. Revs to 7000 rpm. Most V8s in 914s don't rev to 7000 rpm

4. Horsepower increases come at relatively low cost. For the turbo engines especially.

5. A WRX engine with some minor tweaking can give 250 HP. Lots of V8s deliver that kind of power, especially ones that you'll find in the same price range as a WRX engine. Sure a V8 can put out 500 HP, but costs go up for everything very fast.


I'm sure there are more reasons, but those are mine at least...


Now in terms of getting tired with horsepower, there is a practical limit. My guess is that on the streets the difference between a 500 HP 914 and a 250 HP 914 would be insignificant. There isn't much you can do on the streets with 500 HP that you can't do with 250. Now if you are into street drag racing maybe theres a difference, but changes are you wouldn't be into 914s.

And the majority of people considering engine swaps are doing it for street cars, not race cars.


-Tony

[MattR]

QUOTE (Crazyhippy @ Feb 13 2006, 11:52 AM)

QUOTE (MattR @ Feb 13 2006, 09:24 AM) My two cents, You own a 914 for the feel of it, not the performance.  Top down, engine growling, etc.  I think you can only get that experience with a noisy, rough type 4 or flat six.  Its an aircooled trait and its what makes these cars cool. If you want sheer performance, get a boxster.  They're chick cars, they dont feel fun, but they're much faster.  Putting a sube in a 914 will yield a faster car then a type 4 powered 914, but you're putting new technology in a 30+ year old chassis and sacrificing what (in my opinion) makes 914s fun. Ever driven one? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif) BJH

Ive driven WRXs. Ive driven type 4 powered 914s. Ive been in Scott Thatcher's. And yes, my opinion stands.

Its too refined of a car with a sube motor. Its such a fine line and totally subjective...