Anyone have an opinion re: 914/Subaru conversions?, i.e. what are the pros/cons Options

[mrdezyne]

QUOTE (alpha434 @ Feb 13 2006, 11:47 AM)

Why go to the bother of running water lines and all the crap involved when you could probably find a V-8 for just a little bit over the cost of a suby and just have to do the same thing over. How long would you be happy with whatever menial hp you're getting from a suby boxer engine. How long did it take you to get tired of the menial hp of a type IV? I'm a purist.

True, HP is addictive and once you get a little taste of it eventually you will seek ways to get more. But I think the reason most of us are opting for the Suby is the LBS/HP ratio. The V-8 is a heavy option but effective. The Suby is still a flat four so its not that far of a stretch from what Porsche intended.

A 200HP Type IV is certainly not menial so why would it be considered "menial" horsepower from a Suby?

I think the other item that was well stated above is what will keep this topic so contriversial...... Purist vs. Modifiers. I have no incentive to keep my 914 bone stock. I will always choose to make my vehicles different and better in my opinion than stock. If I wanted what everyone else drove I would have a Ford Tarus.

[Porcharu]

QUOTE (alpha434 @ Feb 13 2006, 11:47 AM)

Why go to the bother of running water lines and all the crap involved when you could probably find a V-8 for just a little bit over the cost of a suby and just have to do the same thing over. How long would you be happy with whatever menial hp you're getting from a suby boxer engine. How long did it take you to get tired of the menial hp of a type IV? I'm a purist. Get a 6 if you're tired. They're cool and fun and more noisy than anyone will ever need (especially a cheap little "T") You wouldn't have to run water lines or some exotic ecu. Just a distributor and a carburator. Or get a boxster. Matt is right. Total chic car. And very fast.

That's the beauty of the Thatcher style Suby swap. The radiator is right there in the engine compartment. If the swapper used a Suby radiator they could even use stock suby radiator hoses.
These things are puttion out close to 300HP in top level form - stock. I think 300HP in a 2000 lb car would take a long time to tired off.
With a hot V-8 your right back to breaking any reasonable priced production transaxle

[carreraguy]

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/popcorn[1].gif)

Thanks for all the good input, but I didn't wish to start a controversy. I'm just an old fart with possibly more money than brains looking for reliable horsepower in a classic mid-engine platform that is fun to drive.

Bottom line, to me the entire concept of modern engine, lighter overall weight and more hp with appropriate handling and suspension mods is very appealing. On top of all that it uses less gas than a V8 or 911 3.2/3.6!

P.S. I already have a CW taildragger, so I get my "purity" jollies there.

[914rrr]

Speaking of "disposable" motors...anybody read the Boxster forums? Something about the only remedy to a common problem ...leaking rear main seal... is to REPLACE THE ENGINE?!?!?!?!? WTF!!!!

[anthony]

QUOTE (TonyAKAVW @ Feb 13 2006, 12:59 PM)

Pretty much everything else can be purchased off the shelf. Properly modifying a Subaru wiring harness would take a lot of time. There's so much to do on it, and each model year is different that it seems it would be tricky for a shop to do this cost effectively.

Does it make any sense to use Megasquirt or carbs on a Subaru engine?

I was just wondering outloud here whether it makes any sense to try and give a Subaru engine a more vintage look.

[scotty914]

i am alive, you all are talking about me like i am dead

quick run down of my life over the last year, went to the wcc being self employeed with plenty of work. came home to no work, and after a year of being broke, work that was supposed to happen did not. fast forward to 3 weeks ago i finally got a job that pays me what i deserve in a position that works.

so back to the topic

i look at the porscharu conversion as the next step in the life of a 914, if posrche had kept the design it would have gone water cooled. my cost was about 2700 installed, but i need a timingbelt right now, maybe rebuild the heads or new motor. if i do a new motor it will be a single overhead cam, much easier to hook up the coolant lines.

i am happy with the conversion, it was pretty cheap and it ran well, until i ignored the noise coming from the timing belt.

and it is not a end all conversion it just makes the car more fun and a better daily driver ( less work )

i am done

[SirAndy]

QUOTE (carreraguy @ Feb 11 2006, 07:39 PM)

what are the pros/cons

cons: water (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/icon8.gif)

pros: (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif)


(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) Andy

[WRX914]

cons:
possible wheel well cutting.
water lines

pros:
reliable power
better weight distribution (radiator in front)
reliable kick ass power
easy on the transaxle
reliable drifting power
great gas mileage (apporx 30 mpg)
neck straining power that is reliable
pass smog test 1st time
reliable 911 killing power
turbo blow off valve sounds great
reliable 993 killing power
pretty cheap to get into
reliable 996 killing power
do not need to take to Porsche to have engine work
reliable 997 killing power
lightweight (less than type IV)

I think that about covers it!

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beer.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beerchug.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smoke.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beer3.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smoke.gif)

[SirAndy]

hmmm, water could actually be a *pro* ...

i mean, if you ever get stuck in the middle of the desert ...
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/poke.gif) Andy

[cbenitah]

QUOTE (McMark @ Feb 13 2006, 11:24 AM)

If someone walked in my door and asked for a subie swap, I would probably quote them $5k - $6k in labor. That would include: 1. Custom engine mount bar. 2. Custom radiator setup. 3. Additional gauges. 4. Conversion wiring harness. 5. Any necessary body modifications. 6. All the little fit/finish items.

tune in the engine etc...

ok, where is this shop of yours? I'm trying to find different options to take my car when I'm ready for the conversion, but it seams like everyone is doing it at home.. I dont really care if a private person does it.. anyone want to make some xtra $$? The ideal would be if I could be there doing the conversion myself with someone that is a hobby expert on it.. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wavey.gif)

I know there is a lot of purists out there.. But it doesnt have to be all that bad to do something like this.. Ever since I moved to the United States, everyone is very proud of (and should be) freedom of speech.. the thing that brought us into this board is the love of cars.. and for us its a 914 right. Some of us are going fast and some are not.. but when someone asks any of us what kind of car we drive we say: 914..

I love to read all the tech threads in here, it has helped me so much! So lets all drink a (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beer.gif) and sing kumbaja by the camp fire!

[guiltless]

There is something that is being left out here... gas mileage. In the suby turbo motor, cruising in 5th on the freeway (under the turbo) with a 300hp STI 2.5 yields you around 25mpg in even the heavy STI (and that was in my buddys tuned STI making 415hp). Imagine what you would get with a teener.

Power... The setup that I am going to have built (when $ ever gets here) will rev upto 8k, make 450hp on pump gas, and even more torque. Not to mention that peak torque is made around 3000 rpm and continues like a New Mexico butte until about 7000. All this for about the same price as a 993 varioram. All the internals are balanced and forged for strength for years.

Tranny... WRX 5speed with a gearset from PPG. Total for the tranny will be around $5k but it will handle upwards of 600ft/lbs of torque and will shift "dog" style which is way the crap faster than any of us could shift. It would be even cheaper with synchros.

All in all if you are looking for power, a flat torque curve, the great sound of a high power "boxter" style engine, smooth shifting, low weight, great gas mileage, and all around kick-assness, you can't turn your head away from Subaru power.

If you want the sexy "porsche" sound then and you want to preserve the porsche nostalgia, by all means, go with a -6.

Thats just my $.02

[Porcharu]

QUOTE (cbenitah @ Feb 13 2006, 04:06 PM)

QUOTE (McMark @ Feb 13 2006, 11:24 AM) If someone walked in my door and asked for a subie swap, I would probably quote them $5k - $6k in labor.  That would include: 1. Custom engine mount bar. 2. Custom radiator setup. 3. Additional gauges. 4. Conversion wiring harness. 5. Any necessary body modifications. 6. All the little fit/finish items. tune in the engine etc... ok, where is this shop of yours? I'm trying to find different options to take my car when I'm ready for the conversion, but it seams like everyone is doing it at home.. I dont really care if a private person does it.. anyone want to make some xtra $$? The ideal would be if I could be there doing the conversion myself with someone that is a hobby expert on it.. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wavey.gif) I know there is a lot of purists out there.. But it doesnt have to be all that bad to do something like this.. Ever since I moved to the United States, everyone is very proud of (and should be) freedom of speech.. the thing that brought us into this board is the love of cars.. and for us its a 914 right. Some of us are going fast and some are not.. but when someone asks any of us what kind of car we drive we say: 914.. I love to read all the tech threads in here, it has helped me so much! So lets all drink a (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beer.gif) and sing kumbaja by the camp fire!

I hope to offer a kit that a backyard mechanic could install by themselves. This will only happen if I am very pleased with how my install works out. I am doing everything with an eye towards producing this kit.
I'll be more that happy to drink a beer with you (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beer3.gif) but I'm just not a kumbaja kind of guy. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

[grantsfo]

I continue to see many make quotes that a Subaru engine conversion is lighter than a T4. Does anyone have weights of a fully plumbed radiator, adaptor plate and the additional mounting hardware required for the Soobie conversion. What is the actual weight of the various Subaru engines? I'm not convinced a Subaru engine conversion, once its installed, is lighter than a T4.

I do agree that 914 loses a lot of character without a T4 or a small displacement six. That's why I chose a carbed 2.4 six for my project. I'll likely crush the price of a Subaru conversion and have much prettier sounds. If I drove a WRX conversion I would need to bring my iPod with correct Porsche sounds loaded and drive around with my headphones on all the time to drown out the mad farting sound of the Subaru engine! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/blink.gif)

[scotts-toolwench]

QUOTE (grantsfo @ Feb 13 2006, 05:45 PM)

I continue to see many make quotes that a Subaru engine conversion is lighter than a T4. Does anyone have weights of a fully plumbed radiator, adaptor plate and the additional mounting hardware required for the Soobie conversion. What is the actual weight of the various Subaru engines? I'm not convinced a Subaru engine conversion, once its installed, is lighter than a T4. I do agree that 914 loses a lot of character without a T4 or a small displacement six. That's why I chose a carbed 2.4 six for my project. I'll likely crush the price of a Subaru conversion and have much prettier sounds. If I drove a WRX conversion I would need to bring my iPod with correct Porsche sounds loaded and drive around with my headphones on all the time to drown out the mad farting sound of the Subaru engine! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/blink.gif)

Well I don't know much about the weight....(unless it's my own, which just ain't pretty! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/dry.gif) )

But as far as sound quality goes....when I met Scott the 914 had a 1.8 stock engine in it. After the Suby conversion I jumped in the car with him and drove across the country in it. She sounded exactly the same to me with just a hint of throatiness.

Trust me, I, of all people had a great opertunity to hear what both engines sound like.....and there isn't a diffrence. So by all means keep your iPod on whatever kind of tunes you like.... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beer.gif)

[jimkelly]

The choice of a stock type four - or a hot rodded type four - or a porsche 6 of any level, or a subaru powered 914 is not about which is better or worse in theory - it is about what each of us prefers based on a variety of personal reasons. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/chatsmiley.gif)

I am happy to see a 914 on the road regardless of what powers it - but a clean six with 5 lug suspension will probably always impress me most - this though is way outside my budget - thus I am leaning toward a naturally aspired subaru ej22 2.2L 135HP power plant now more than ever due to Steve's efforts of getting an ej powerplant to work in a 914 with subaru 5spd tranny (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/mueba.gif)

For me the reasons are: total cost, power, reliability, overall weight, gas mileage, water for heat, etc (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/popcorn[1].gif)

boxters vs briefs - get a similar about of debate (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/dead horse.gif)

[cbenitah]

QUOTE (Porcharu @ Feb 13 2006, 05:13 PM)

I hope to offer a kit that a backyard mechanic could install by themselves. This will only happen if I am very pleased with how my install works out. I am doing everything with an eye towards producing this kit. I'll be more that happy to drink a beer with you (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beer3.gif) but I'm just not a kumbaja kind of guy. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

we can skip the song hahah. I just didnt like the tone that was going on for a while.. we are slaves under the 914 god, and lets not start a war among us.. I have learned so much from being in the us.. culture shock at least.. and i hope those i met have learned a little about sweden..

wow, sign me up, ill buy it from you. would that be with the suby tranny too? I know you want to be happy with your own conversion.. and I sure hope you will be.. do you have any timeframe as how long it will take to get a kit done.. im looking to do the swap this coming winter, since I'm hoping the 1.8 will have a little life left.

thanks guys!

[mrdezyne]

QUOTE (grantsfo @ Feb 13 2006, 05:45 PM)

What is the actual weight of the various Subaru engines? I'm not convinced a Subaru engine conversion, once its installed, is lighter than a T4.

According to the KEP product catalog (they list all their conversions, motors, HP ratings and most weights), the Suby 2.0, 2.2, and 2.5 weigh in at 260 lbs.

I'm still happy with that compared to a 450lb V8....

[WRX914]

Dana, what was the weight of your car that you got from the truck scales?

[WRX914]

Just called Dana, he told me the actual weight of his car full of gas with a full cage and a 600watt sound system is 2180lbs.

[MattR]

QUOTE (WRX914 @ Feb 13 2006, 02:14 PM)

reliable 911 killing power reliable 993 killing power reliable 996 killing power reliable 997 killing power

Okay, okay. I have no sense of humor. This is a joke.

But is there anyone out there in TV land that really thinks a hybrid 30 year old bug and motortrend motor can really contend with the latest from Stuttgart?