Valvetrain lightening, For higher revs.... Options

[alpha434]

Here's a picture of a rocker that we did for a 356.

And BTW. Our 356's rev 8000.

[Aaron Cox]

vey cool!

(get a digital camera (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/tongue.gif) )

are they forged or cast?

what kinda pushrods do you use? valve springs? etc

[alpha434]

Haha.

Special springs that are NLA.

Stock pushrods.

Cast.

And that IS a digital camera. It's my Palm Zire 71. Almost all of my pictures were taken with it.




And THIS is my 1000th post!!!! Hooray!
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/av-943.gif)

[Mueller]

QUOTE (alpha434 @ Mar 11 2006, 03:42 PM)

Haha. Special springs that are NLA. Stock pushrods. Cast. And that IS a digital camera. It's my Palm Zire 71. Almost all of my pictures were taken with it. And THIS is my 1000th post!!!! Hooray! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/av-943.gif)

NLA springs??? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif)

all you have to do is get them tested and get new ones made just like those, plenty of places that'll make 'em for you.....

Racer Chris or Jake has posted Type IV rockers lightened up just like those......

[alpha434]

We've got a stockpile of them.

We are not worried about running out.


And we drill everything. You should see some of the holes I have to put in things.

[McMark]

Palm doesn't make digital cameras. Palm makes PDAs with camera functions. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/dry.gif)

[Jake Raby]

I lighten mine without drilling any holes... All done with a rotary file and a lot of time...

Good work how many grams did you take from them total?

[Cap'n Krusty]

QUOTE (alpha434 @ Mar 11 2006, 02:19 PM)

Here's a picture of a rocker that we did for a 356. And BTW. Our 356's rev 8000.

Whaddya do about the oil passage? Hard to see in the picture. The Cap'n

[MattR]

Last time I pulled off my valve covers on my 912 for a valve adjust, I saw the length of the outer rocker arms and just laughed.

[Gint]

Who the hell is "we"? And "our"? Pretty sure you don't have 356 money.

[Aaron Cox]

QUOTE (Gint @ Mar 11 2006, 07:22 PM)

Who the hell is "we"? And "our"? Pretty sure you don't have 356 money.

al lager im guessing.


very cool stuff chris

[alpha434]

QUOTE (Gint @ Mar 11 2006, 06:22 PM)

Who the hell is "we"?  And "our"?  Pretty sure you don't have 356 money.

Jeeze Gint. I've been under RSR's for Al. Didn't I mention? Prepping racers since I was 15. So I'm not JUST a smartass. 20 minutes on the rear tires!

And he MAKES me drive 'em. Even if I didn't want to.

I'm not sure how many grams we whacked off of it. Al has those numbers written down somewhere. But yeah. They started out as the lightest stock lifter (which only came in some particular year.) We driller. Counterbored. Countersunk. Filed. Ground. And then polished. Took like a hundred hours for eight rockers. That's an exageration.

[Katmanken]

Alpha, Jake,

Ever considered using wire EDM or ram EDM to make holes or lighten the parts?

With the wire, you can make the holes larger, with the ram, you make a copper electrode to the final shape and burn yer way through the part to the final result. With the right shaped electrode, you can reduce outside profile, modify the inner profile (to thin the walls where you want, and add lightening holes.

Finish is rough, but that's what tumble deburr and polishing is for. Also can make a gang electrode to do multiple parts simultaneously. That's where CNC shines....(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/idea.gif)

Need a good fixture to hold a set of rockers in alignment, a good electrode, and an evening of EDM run time. Can also flip parts over and do farside for the other side inner profile.

Alpha, know how much you LOVE machining copper... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/happy11.gif)

Anyway, sumpthin to think about.... Prolly not cheap but 100 hours at whatever they pay you might make it cost effective.

Ken

[Katmanken]

Need a really good house? Here are the guys I usta work with..... Morris Technologies

J&J decided to dump our model shop and most of the guys ended up at this outfit. Matter of fact, the model shop never moved from the plant, the Morris name appeared on the door and the uniforms.

These guys can do ANYTHING. They have full CNC machining and tooling centers, RAM and wire EDM, SLA molding tanks (hard or elastomeric materials), SLS (Sintered laser sintering- metal or plastic), plastics molding (small parts), laser welding, TIG, urethane casting, etc.

Most of the guys are master model makers and prototype makers. A lot of them came from Kenner toys plus the J&J work for the last 15 years. Lotta prototype Star Wars toy stuff laying around.

Chuck Hansford is the guy there. You can even use my name. Prolly won't curse too much.. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

Ken

[alpha434]

Yeah. I've got access to EDM equipment. And I've done some of it. Copper is a PITA to machine. I said that it was tougher than Ti. It's like machining play dough. BUT I can do it. And diodes aren't very complex. Why not just use a brass diode?
I've thought about it once before. Huge PITA.

But now I'm thinking about it again. Good idea.



And JESUS CHRIST! That is one well set-up shop. Laser welding. Plastic injection. Those two pieces of equipment alone would be enough to buy a few shops around here.

[ChrisFoley]

Type IV rockers are forged and the outer surface is quite hard but the core is more ductile. A carbide drill is required to drill holes. I made fixturing to support the rockers with the web flat for drilling in a drill press.
Thinning out the web is done with carbide burrs.
EDM might save some time.
The last step that should be done is to shot peen them after all material removal to increase their strength.

[alpha434]

QUOTE (Racer Chris @ Mar 12 2006, 10:58 AM)

Type IV rockers are forged and the outer surface is quite hard but the core is more ductile. A carbide drill is required to drill holes. I made fixturing to support the rockers with the web flat for drilling in a drill press. Thinning out the web is done with carbide burrs. EDM might save some time. The last step that should be done is to shot peen them after all material removal to increase their strength.

You're right about surface hardened. All rockers are. Not exclusive to type IV.

We go back and case harden ours, at my recomendation.
Then we shot peen it to get all the carbon crap off of it.

Heat treating it for core hardness is a good way to go.

And I use high speed steel anyway. Carbide does not like the shock of going into a convex curve. And I sharpen my own drill bits for that purpose. Skill saves on tooling costs.

The advantage of EDMing would be the ability to put an odd shaped hole into it. Like a square or a triangle. More mass out by being able to get into the corners.

[r_towle]

ok, a non machine shop guy question...

How come you dont use aluminum or titanium rockers...I mean make them..

Then you could make the shape and size you want..and they would be lighter..right??

Rich

[alpha434]

Inconvenience.

I'm making aluminum ones for a type IV.

They are more than strong enough if done properly.

Titanium is possible, but I already have a lot to chew on that plate. No comment. And it doesn't take a hit very well. The slapping during warmup, while the valve lash is closing would break them.

[alpha434]

And kudos to Rich Towle for thinking. That was a very good and informative question.

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