OT: I've been asked to post a backgrounder on X1/9, Cliff's notes X production history Options

[KaptKaos]

Carlo Abarth also modified Porches too. Below please find a pic of one of his creations.

(IMG:http://classics.com/images01/r01-12s.jpg)

I thought that his name was pronounced Aw-varth, but then were arguing over an austrian name, pronouned with an italian accent.

Additionally, the X1/9 used components from the 128 sedan, which is a front drive car. The aformentioned Yugo was a 128 as well and from what I understand, there are people that use the yugo heads on the x1/9s for a perfromance increase!

[Rooster]

Oh, and some X's come with a really cool reverse tach too.

[Duane Estill]

Excellent historical point Steve! Gandini and Lampredi with the X1/9. A little history of these guys....

Marcello Gandini is the designer of the Lamborghini Miura, Countache, Diablo, Mercialago, and Gallardo, and several others. He is the DUDE that first designed the "wedge" car, and it was the Bertone Carabo, picture attached. This was the first ever wedge type car.

Aurelio Lampredi is most famous for designing the 4.5 liter V12 engine for Ferrari and managing some the company's first world championship campaigns in the early 50's. He oversaw engine design at Fiat until 1977, and the dimunitive X was his engine project.

On a more personal note, Steve is right about the reliability of the X. If you do things right, it holds up well. As with the 914, we're dealing with old cars to begin with, so that has to figure in. "Fix-it-again-Tony" is more pneumonic device than reality. You guys are spared such idiocy because the spelling of Porsche does not lend itself to that. Incidentally, Fiat stands for "Fabrica Italia Automobilia (di) Torino" or, "Italian made cars of Torino (Turin)."

[Duane Estill]

Joe:

You're right about the 128, they essentially took the engine and final drive and dropped it in the back. That car has the distinction of being Fiat's first ever front wheel drive car, introduced in 1969.

[Mac]

QUOTE (jim912928 @ Mar 12 2006, 06:54 PM)

I had a 72 914 when my brother had a 75 X1/9 (this was back in 1975!). Both were a blast to drive. Fiat was even more go-cart like in it's handling. I also liked it's shift feel much better. He let the timing belt go beyond the maintenance interval and it broke. That was a real pain redoing! That engine is really shoe-horned in there. My other brother, dad and sister all had fiat 850's (another little go cart like car...really handled good!). Sister had a 69 (I think)...had glass covered headlights.

Yikes! If all he had to do was the timing belt consider him lucky!

The 1300 is an interference engine so if the timing belt breaks you can usually end up looking at least at some bent valves, or even a cracked piston.

The 1500 engines btw are non-interference so a lost t-belt there is usually just a matter of spinning it all back to mark and throwing the new belt on.

Both engines very much love to rev high! The X1/9 when you run up to 8 or 9 grand the engine sound / exhaust note is just enough to make your heart jump up in your chest!

It is also true the X is even more go-kart-like than the 914 and takes corners truly like a slot car, almost unbelievably so. Be careful if you get in one that has worn out struts or tires though, or you will very quickly be facing the direction you just came from! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)

[jim912928]

Mac...we also had to replace all the valves...bent bent bent and bent!

[Mac]

Thanks for chiming in Duane and Steve! You struck on some important points that I left out

[Mac]

QUOTE (jim912928 @ Mar 12 2006, 07:40 PM)

Mac...we also had to replace all the valves...bent bent bent and bent!

Aha well that sounds more like it! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/headbang.gif)

[Mac]

QUOTE (Rooster @ Mar 12 2006, 07:22 PM)

Oh, and some X's come with a really cool reverse tach too.

Oh yeah, the backward spinning tach is a pretty neat item. Mostly seen on the 1500s. One of the common complaints about the earlier cars was that due to the seating position and location of the wheel, not to mention an X's habit of spending most of its time somewhere closer to redline (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) you mostly could not see what the tach was doing, so eventually, they started making the tachs with zero at the right and redline at the left. My '80 has this. For something so small it gets a lot of comments from onlookers

[lapuwali]

As for the FIAT 128 being a "landmark car" due to it's drivetrain layout, I'll point out that the Mini got there 10 years earlier (in 1959), was produced in vastly larger numbers (5.5 million of the little buggers, in all variations), and was produced for 40 years (production finally ended in 2000) with no major changes along the way. A transverse engine was unusual then, and fwd was also unusual. The Mini was the first to marry the two ideas. The idea was STILL unusual in 1969, when the 128 came along.

[Mac]

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Mar 12 2006, 07:49 PM)

As for the FIAT 128 being a "landmark car" due to it's drivetrain layout, I'll point out that the Mini got there 10 years earlier (in 1959), was produced in vastly larger numbers (5.5 million of the little buggers, in all variations), and was produced for 40 years (production finally ended in 2000) with no major changes along the way.  A transverse engine was unusual then, and fwd was also unusual. The Mini was the first to marry the two ideas.  The idea was STILL unusual in 1969, when the 128 came along.

I'd like to point out in my own defense that I said the 128 was "one of" the first, not THE first (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)

If you really want to get technical about it, the Mini loses too, because there was the CORD in the '30s.... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/slap.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

Peace, -Mac

[Duane Estill]

Pardon me sir but there was no claim that the Fiat 128 was 'landmark.' It was just the first front-wheel-drive car for Fiat. You are correct about the Mini.

Generally, the 1931 Audi DKW F1 is acknowledged as the first mass-produced front-wheel-drive car in the world, but surely not the
first car ever made that had front wheel drive. That distinction goes to some unkown car maker somewhere that is lost to history and highly disputed, as these things are.

[Duane Estill]

Yes..you're right Mac...the Cord figures in the history of front-wheel-drive.

[Mac]

QUOTE (Duane Estill @ Mar 12 2006, 07:58 PM)

Pardon me sir but there was no claim that the Fiat 128 was 'landmark.'

Pardon me gents, but actually `ahem' I did make the claim the 128 was a -er- "landmark" car (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/unsure.gif) just not that it was "the first" (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif)

I still think that too, because it did a lot to proliferate fwd especially in the USA

I still remember people laughing when they saw the 128s in my region back in the day, asking who in the hell would want a front wheel drive car and acting like it was from another planet. Then people started buying them...

Now look around and you can hardly find a commuter car that's not fwd...

Never meant to say the 128 was single-handedly responsible, but there's no denying it is "one of" the trendsetters that encouraged fwd into global mass production - as is the Mini

[brant]

So what is the total weight on an early 1300 car.

or a 1500 for that matter


brant

[Mac]

QUOTE (brant @ Mar 12 2006, 08:39 PM)

So what is the total weight on an early 1300 car. or a 1500 for that matter brant

There's a lot of variation depending on which shop book you believe, but generally...

Fiat 1300 X ('74-'78) = around 2000lb (+ or - 100lb)

Fiat 1500 X ('79-'83) = around 100lb more than 1300

Bertone 1500 X ('83-'87) = around 50lb to 100lb more than Fiat 1500 (depending on options)

Just guesstimates but that's the general ballpark...

Did I mention a lot of us are into boosting power and weight reduction? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/driving.gif)

[reddog]

QUOTE (Duane Estill @ Mar 12 2006, 06:42 PM)

Stratos prototype......this is really wild......

AND...it was coal powered too!!!!

[Rooster]

The book on mine says about 2100lbs. w/AC

I've dumped the AC, the bumpers, rear fan assy, and bits and pieces. I figure I'm under the 1 ton mark.

[Mac]

QUOTE (reddog @ Mar 12 2006, 09:00 PM)

QUOTE (Duane Estill @ Mar 12 2006, 06:42 PM) Stratos prototype......this is really wild...... AND...it was coal powered too!!!!

Sorry man this is Italy we're talking about --- IT WAS PASTA POWERED (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

[reddog]

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wub.gif) I LOVE the X1/9's...I owned three of them all 79's would like to obtain an fuel injected Bertone some day...I have one that I was going to convert to G Production that has been sitting on jack stands (never touching the ground) since 1987!!! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) I also have a duel carb 40mm DCNF's Webers F1 cam and 40 mm intakes good for 125 HP @ 7000... My STOCK car beat out an Lotus Europa and a GT 350 in a AX (VERY tight course) event way back in 1983...do not take these cars lightly. but I crossed over to you guys because of the smog thing...I guess I have a thing for AXIS engineering (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)