I've had a number of pms asking for some backgrounder info on the X1/9 so instead of replying individually to them all I figured it may be easeir to satisfy curiosities by just posting it here...

It is true the 914 was first to market although X1/9s were actually in development around the same time. The prototype X1/9 was a concept car called the Autobianchi Runabout which was designed by Marcello Gandini of Bertone and developed in the mid-to-late '60s. It was shown in 1968, and based on the reaction, Fiat made the decision to have Gandini/Bertone turn it into a production car (quite a bit different from the wild speedboat looking concept car though).

The first year X1/9s were sold was 1972 and that was in Italy only. Very very rare. 2nd year they sold in Italy as well as a couple of other nearby European countries. 3rd year was 1974 and this was the first year they sold them in the USA. Oddly the UK didn't get any until '76 but that's another story. In the US market '74 is generally the most coveted for the older cars in enthusiast circles because it has many unique bits that were changed in '75 on.

I myself have owned (among others) a '75 and '80 model. I prefer the '75 over '74s but I am in the minority there. The '74 has very cool 1/4 bumperettes Euro style that people like and also some powerplant differences (no cat, a freer flowing exhaust manifold etc) however the 74 had a 3 piece welded cross member at the rear of the engine bay which is notorious for weakening at the seams, '75 and on had a solid one piece member, but also uglier US spec 'dual rail' bumpers. I think bumpers are minor in the final analysis because most folks just strip them off and go bumperless anyway!

So, where are we? Ah 74 was the first US model year. From '74 to '78 the cars were a 1300cc 4 banger sohc with a 4 speed manual trans, single weber dd carb, points ignition. In 1979 they went to a 1500cc engine with 5speed manual but the car was still carbed and in fact the 79 only (and technically first half of 80) had the smallest carb of any year and also a lot of 'transitional' unique parts because about halfway through 1980 they went to the same 1500cc with 5 speed but then ditched carb and went to BOSCH Fuel Injection and electronic ignition. My '80 is one of the very first FI Xs.

The history gets a little weird now. Fiat made the 1500 FI Xs until about late '82 early '83 then decided they were pulling the plug on the X (and pulling the plug on the US market altogether, never to return). Bertone, the design house and actually the manufacturer of the chassis, did not want the X to die, so made a deal to get the engines from Fiat and take over full production of the car themselves.

While Bertone started their own distribution arrangements for the X in other markets, They then made a deal with a crazy entrepreneur you may have heard of (His own gullwing sports car made in Canada and importing Subaru in the 70s, then Yugo in the late '80s, and most recently Chinese cars) by the name of Malcolm Bricklin!

Malcolm Bricklin started importing the X as well as the Fiat Spider to the US around '83. The cars were no longer called Fiats. They were badged Pininfarina for the Spider and Bertone for the X. So from '83/'84 on the car is called the Bertone X1/9, wears only Bertone badges etc. An interesting historical footnote is that, of all the cars Bertone has had a hand in over their history, the X1/9 is the only car that has ever been marketed as a "Bertone" badged product directly. They spruced it up with leather interior, power windows, some more creature comforts, a/c, courtesy lights in the doors etc, and most notably a fancy selection of 2-tone paint jobs.

The Bertone Xs sold in the US from '83ish (although very few really are around til about the '85 models) on to about '87. Fiat had so demolished their own rep in the US previously that the cars were a harder sell at any rate, plus Bricklin's network of Bertone dealers had their own plethora of support problems.

Then there was a matter of very similarly styled copycat competitors now literally flooding the market, such as the Pontiac Fiero (being marketed on tv ads parked beside an X1/9 with the slogan "Buy American!" - how blatant can you get?) and the Toyota MR2 (at least not directly compared in ads but obviously aimed at the X with the slogan "Japanese Reliability"), cars with MASSIVE production volumes and better dealer support than the X, which had been on the US market with more or less the same original design for 13 years!

The sum total of all this was that by then the dealers could hardly give them away, and started folding left and right. There was a huge glut of unsold Xs and Bricklins import house crumbled. The last official year in the US market was '87 although there are some early '88s that have been found in the States. Some of the later Bertone cars came with a 'Corsa' factory body kit (air dams, spoilers, ground effects) that although it can look somewhat dated now is still coveted by many for its relative rarity.

After the US market died the X continued to soldier on in other countries. For example in the UK and most of Europe they continued on through '89 before the whole thing was brought to a close. Some of the latest model UK cars were called "Gran Finale" models and are sought after, as well as some of the unsellable US spec models were backflushed into Europe for liquidation and called there the "Sunshine" models. They are sought after there because in those markets they never got the FI system that we had in '80, so they are the only Xs that were sold in those markets with FI instead of carb.

That's the short version. I could go on for hours if we wanted to break down year by year and market by market differences. For example Australia got some weird ones around the 1300 to 1500 transition times (1500 bodies with 1300s in them) but I'll save that for another day.

I'll be happy to answer any other X questions as best I can

Peace, -Mac

Wow, cool info...

Interesting. Thank you for the small history.

I've always liked the looks/ style of the X's.

I just shyed away from any Fiat product because of the "initialled" name.... (fixitagainTony!) which could've/should've been applied to the last 914 I had

Now I understand. It's a "horse apiece" (if'n ya know what I mean)

Thanks for the info Mac

......b

Just out of curiousity, did the cars tend to get heavier or loose horsepower (crash and emissions) as the production run went on.

X19 really never did it for me. The Lancia Stratos was the hot light midengined Italian car that I thought was cool

The Lancia Stratos is in reality the X1/9's big brother. Both were designed by Gandini and built by Fiat/Lancia, and even have a number of parts in common.

The biggest difference is that the Stratos got a 6 cylinder Ferrari engine (!) and a much much higher price tag!

On the weight question, the production X1/9 was brought onto the drawing board at a time when the US was debating new legislation that would have banned soft top convertibles outright, and made new vehicle safety standards much harsher than ever before. The X was designed to meet all the proposed new laws so Fiat could rush straight to market with it while other carmakers would still be scrambling to make their cars compliant.

The laws never did end up passing (thanks to a lot of powerful lobbyists from Detroit who preferred to avoid the imposed redesign/retooling expenses than to protect passengers), but the X was already done. It is the only car we know of that actually would have met ALL the proposed regulations without the passenger compartment collapsing (the targa bar ain't just for looks) which included a 50mph head on collision and an 80mph rollover! As a result, the X is very rigid, safe and strong, but also heavier than it looks for its size.

As production went on they did get slightly heavier around the time the 1500 was added (it came with a new front and rear treatment and heavier one piece bumpers) and a little again when Bertone added options. All in all not too significant changes though, considering the car's heavy and (in stock form) underpowered to begin with.

AS FOR THE ACRONYMS, Yeah, yeah every one of us has "Fix It Again Tony" tatooed backward on our foreheads We have heard them all. Fix it again Tony, Fix it all the time, F*ck it all together, Feeble Italian Automotive Technology, the list goes on and on...

In reality it stands for "Fabbrica Italiano Automobili Torino" which means roughly "Italian Manufacturer of Automobiles Torino" (Torino/Turin, Italy being Fiat HQ)

We have a number of comebacks though for those. One of my favorites for the X is "Fast, Italian and Topless". Another is "Ferrari In Affordable Trim"

Peace, -Mac

way cool!

sounds like a 74/75 is the hot ticket for california smog laws...

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Mar 12 2006, 05:35 PM)

way cool! sounds like a 74/75 is the hot ticket for california smog laws...

Right you are on the '74s, they came with no significant emissions gear. '75 on started having cats and all the other stuff

There is another possibility to consider, though, which is that for the first few years of their being on the US market, there was an arrangement with the Federal Government which allowed them to sell only SOME cars that complied, and some that were exempt.

So, you will occasionally see Xs in the '75-'78 range that may have a "NON CATALYST" decal on the driver's door jamb. If you had one of those which came with no emissions gear from the factory then I imagine that would be just as good

Peace, -Mac

A few notes from the other Italian car guy on this board:

When "BOSCH Fuel Injection" is mentioned in Italian car circles, L-Jet is usually universally meant, and is true of the X1/9 and the FIAT Spider. Ferrari actually used K-Jet on the 308 for awhile, but L-Jet was pretty much all that was used otherwise. Alfa used their own version of MFI, called Spica, on all US cars from 1969-1979. Alfa then switched to L-Jet on US cars from 1980 until they disappeared from the US market in 1994.

FIAT absorbed Lancia in 1969, and thereafter Lancias slowly becames FIATs, adopting things like engines and platforms over time. The Lancia Scorpion, for example, is pretty close to a Lancia X1/9 with the DOHC 124 engine in it, rather than the SOHC engine found in the X. FIAT bought up Alfa in 1986, and within a few years all Alfas were fwd, though they retained the excellent Alfa all-alloy DOHC four, and the Alfa Six.

Bertone is pronounced "ber TONE ay", not "BER town" or "BER tone".

FIATs and Lancias are probably the only cars in the world that rust worse than cars built by Karmann. The old joke is that Karmann invented rust, then licensed the process to the Italians. The battery box on my 124 Coupe is just as rusted out as any 914 battery tray, and the front suspension is directly beneath it.

The Yugo that Malcolm Bricklin imported is, in fact, a FIAT 128 built under license. You'll find entries for Yugo parts in many FIAT parts catalogs. I'm pretty sure there were far more Yugos sold in the US than FIAT 128s.

The FIAT 850 series all used a rear-engine layout, and it's common to see 850 racers fitting Porsche gearboxes.

The X1/9 and Stratos were stable mates in the burgeoning Fiat Rally program. For clarification, Fiat now owns Ferrari, Lancia, Maserati, Alfa-Romeo, a big chunk of New Holland farm equipment and all sorts of other stuff.

In the halcion days of the X1/9, there was a performance company called Abarth (pronounced AH-bart) that had been modifiying and racing Fiat chassis with great success for many years. Carlo Abarth was the grandfather of all the "tuners" and sold kits for Fiats in the 50's....to this day it the performance division of Fiat and sells aftermarket exhausts, for example.

Fiat had these resources in the 70's and saw rallying as a great way to promote car sales. The X1/9 got developed into a rally car even before it was released in the US as the "prototipo" developed by Abarth, pictures included. This car was a stable mate to the new Stratos, which became hugely more successful but was, in it's first iteration, slower than the X1/9 rally until the Stratos got the V6 Dino engine from the incredible Pininfarina designed Ferrari 246 GTS which featured the 2.4 liter engine named after Enzo's son who died in 1956.
Fiat had, by this time, owned a chunk of Fiat and all of Lancia, so this was the outgrowth....but I digress.

Back to the X....there were only 4 prototypes of the rally X1/9 ever produced and it did not acheive the required production of 500 in order to be rallied. There are myriad stories of what happened to these and there are many kits available, though the engine was completely unique.

Here are a few pictures of the X1/9 Abarth Prototipo spread across posts since I don't know how to post multiples. The very last picture is the prototype of the Stratos that Nuccio Bertone drove to the Lancia offices one day and watched them drop a load over. This car had no doors, you engressed and egressed through the fron bonnet.

Enjoy......

Next.....

Next

Stratos prototype......this is really wild......

Yikes!

the abarth with snorkel gives me a chubby....


i would so do that to an x 1/9 if i had one...
love the colors and the flares!

I had a 72 914 when my brother had a 75 X1/9 (this was back in 1975!). Both were a blast to drive. Fiat was even more go-cart like in it's handling. I also liked it's shift feel much better. He let the timing belt go beyond the maintenance interval and it broke. That was a real pain redoing! That engine is really shoe-horned in there. My other brother, dad and sister all had fiat 850's (another little go cart like car...really handled good!). Sister had a 69 (I think)...had glass covered headlights.

QUOTE (Duane Estill @ Mar 12 2006, 06:42 PM)

Next

Thanks for the pics Duane and btw folks in the background of that one Abarth X shot you can see the Autobianchi Runabout X concept car parked next to it.

Lapuwali is right on nearly all counts. The X is L-jet FI. The Lancia Scorpion was closely related to the X (in fact the X was a Bertone design where the Lancia Scorpion - aka Monte Carlo outside the US market where it had to be renamed to avoid confusion - was Pininfarinas and carried the designation X1/20). Bertone is pronounced "ber TONE ay" and the Yugo indeed was based on a Fiat 128 design. The caveat there is, though, don't blame Fiat for Yugo's reputation. The Fiat 128 was a '60s design and in fact at that time was one of the first truly widespread successes of front wheel drive. An automotive landmark imho. The Yugo by contrast was essentially the same '60s car but built in the late '80s and in a factory in Yugoslavia where cars had never been built before, also using rather poor materials, on top of Bricklin's trademark sketchy distribution/support.

An interesting side note, and yet another opportunity to heckle Xheads, is that some of us go out of our way looking for dead Yugos to scavenge parts from! The X1/9 is basically a mid-engine application of the 128's powerplant. A lot of guys for example snatch the Bosch electronic ignition and distributors from Yugos and slap them in their older Xs to ditch the sloppy points distributors. The most coveted of Yugo parts is the 1100cc cylinder head, because it can be fitted to the X1/9 engine block resulting in a significant boost in compression

Fiats are prone to rust indeed, but, if you find one in decent condition, and treat it properly, they can be kept clean. Not too different from your cars

Peace, -Mac

The nice thing about an X is that while they are not plentiful anymore, you can still do with them as you see fit. Their are really no "purist", you can do what you want to them and their is no ill feeling amongst the group. Here's mine



By next month, it will have 1/4 bumpers and Carbotech brakes all around. I'm also building a 1.3L Uno turbo motor thats pretty much a drop in.

Oh and hi!

Mac has already told you of the history of the car, I will only add a very significant but obscure note regarding history: The X1/9 was the only regular production car that mated a Marcello Gandini designed body with a Aurelio Lampredi designed engine. Most everybody knows Gandini but Lampredi was the chief engine designer at Ferrari throughout the 60s and into the '70s. He was the guy that transformed the Columbo designed V12 into a world beater and designed the very successfull flat 12 Ferrari engines of that same period.

Now that you know the history, I will tell you something of the character of the cars. First, most X enthusiasts divide the production of X's into either 1300s ('74-'78) and 1500s ('79 - '87). The reason for this is the cars have distinctly different character.

1300s are slightly lighter and are more of a "minimalist" sports cars with a very '70s exotic car styling. These are all about fun. The 1300s are very over-square engines (86mm bore and 55.5mm stroke) and therefore love to rev. An average 1300 will turn 8000 rpm with no drama. The harder you drive these cars the happier they are. 1300s are also 4 speeds so they turn more rpm on the highway. While that makes them somewhat buzzy, the engine is so smooth that it matters little.

I have a '74 1300 that I have owned since 1988 and I have had many 1300s. I actually prefer them because of their higher strung nature and more raw/sporting feel. My '74 still has a 1300 motor; balanced and blueprinted, ported head, dual Weber 40 DCNF carbs, header, light flywheel and a 5 speed transmission (from a 1500) but with a 4.8 ring and pinion. Suspension is Koni coil-over struts all around with a front swaybar and 13x7 Revolution wheels. Tires are Sumitomo HTR200s (185/6013 front and 215/50-13 rear).

This is a photo of my '74:

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c246/ste.../Registry74.jpg



The 1500 cars had an updated interior and bumpers which have them a more contemporary look and feel. The chassis were largely unchanged so the handling is basically unchanged. The 1500 engines gained displacement through added stroke. This makes for a better torque curve and when mated to the 5 speed transmission makes for a more comfortable cruiser. Starting in late 1980, Bosch L-Jetronic fuel injection replaced the single Weber 2 bbl. The 1500 were slightly quicker than the 1300s in stock trim. Most notable was the 1500 wider torque curve and 5 speed transmission. 1500s were also more common with AC, better radio/tape systems and power windows. Later versions also had very nice leather and carpet accents.

1500 cars are just as fun as 1300 cars and the engine is just about as eager but the broader torque curve and 5 speed make it a more relaxed cruiser. Add to that the upgraded interior and it has a more GT look and feel to it. I have owned several 1500s and loved them all. As a driver I prefer the 1500s with fuel injection, but to carve up Dragon's Back, give me my '74 1300 any day.

I have raced both 1300s and 1500s with much success. A pic of my Championship winning 1500 DSP car is here:


http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c246/ste...r/PeruTour3.jpg



http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c246/ste.../ShowField2.jpg


A note about reliability and the Fix It Again Tony rep. X1/9s are VERY robust cars. They are hard to break. You can beat on one all day, day after day without it batting an eye. It won't break. The key is proper maintenance. These cars do not respond well to _improper_ maintenance or _no_ mantenance. It ain't a Toyota. You have to change timing belts, keep the accessory belts adjusted, etc... Its primarily neglect or improper maintenance (like not knowing that you have to bleed the air from the cooling system when refilling it) that _cause_ problems and failures.

There are a few things that Fiat had some problems with. Wheel bearings are typically only good for 30K to 40K miles. These are early sealed roller bearings. Changine them is not hard. Electrics aren't as bad as british cars. My cars have had few electrical problems. Bearings on alternators are common, starter solenoids, bad grounds are about it. Again, most of the problems come from people screwing stuff up.

Carlo Abarth also modified Porches too. Below please find a pic of one of his creations.



I thought that his name was pronounced Aw-varth, but then were arguing over an austrian name, pronouned with an italian accent.

Additionally, the X1/9 used components from the 128 sedan, which is a front drive car. The aformentioned Yugo was a 128 as well and from what I understand, there are people that use the yugo heads on the x1/9s for a perfromance increase!

Oh, and some X's come with a really cool reverse tach too.

Excellent historical point Steve! Gandini and Lampredi with the X1/9. A little history of these guys....

Marcello Gandini is the designer of the Lamborghini Miura, Countache, Diablo, Mercialago, and Gallardo, and several others. He is the DUDE that first designed the "wedge" car, and it was the Bertone Carabo, picture attached. This was the first ever wedge type car.

Aurelio Lampredi is most famous for designing the 4.5 liter V12 engine for Ferrari and managing some the company's first world championship campaigns in the early 50's. He oversaw engine design at Fiat until 1977, and the dimunitive X was his engine project.

On a more personal note, Steve is right about the reliability of the X. If you do things right, it holds up well. As with the 914, we're dealing with old cars to begin with, so that has to figure in. "Fix-it-again-Tony" is more pneumonic device than reality. You guys are spared such idiocy because the spelling of Porsche does not lend itself to that. Incidentally, Fiat stands for "Fabrica Italia Automobilia (di) Torino" or, "Italian made cars of Torino (Turin)."

Joe:

You're right about the 128, they essentially took the engine and final drive and dropped it in the back. That car has the distinction of being Fiat's first ever front wheel drive car, introduced in 1969.

QUOTE (jim912928 @ Mar 12 2006, 06:54 PM)

I had a 72 914 when my brother had a 75 X1/9 (this was back in 1975!). Both were a blast to drive. Fiat was even more go-cart like in it's handling. I also liked it's shift feel much better. He let the timing belt go beyond the maintenance interval and it broke. That was a real pain redoing! That engine is really shoe-horned in there. My other brother, dad and sister all had fiat 850's (another little go cart like car...really handled good!). Sister had a 69 (I think)...had glass covered headlights.

Yikes! If all he had to do was the timing belt consider him lucky!

The 1300 is an interference engine so if the timing belt breaks you can usually end up looking at least at some bent valves, or even a cracked piston.

The 1500 engines btw are non-interference so a lost t-belt there is usually just a matter of spinning it all back to mark and throwing the new belt on.

Both engines very much love to rev high! The X1/9 when you run up to 8 or 9 grand the engine sound / exhaust note is just enough to make your heart jump up in your chest!

It is also true the X is even more go-kart-like than the 914 and takes corners truly like a slot car, almost unbelievably so. Be careful if you get in one that has worn out struts or tires though, or you will very quickly be facing the direction you just came from!

Mac...we also had to replace all the valves...bent bent bent and bent!

Thanks for chiming in Duane and Steve! You struck on some important points that I left out

QUOTE (jim912928 @ Mar 12 2006, 07:40 PM)

Mac...we also had to replace all the valves...bent bent bent and bent!

Aha well that sounds more like it!

QUOTE (Rooster @ Mar 12 2006, 07:22 PM)

Oh, and some X's come with a really cool reverse tach too.

Oh yeah, the backward spinning tach is a pretty neat item. Mostly seen on the 1500s. One of the common complaints about the earlier cars was that due to the seating position and location of the wheel, not to mention an X's habit of spending most of its time somewhere closer to redline you mostly could not see what the tach was doing, so eventually, they started making the tachs with zero at the right and redline at the left. My '80 has this. For something so small it gets a lot of comments from onlookers

As for the FIAT 128 being a "landmark car" due to it's drivetrain layout, I'll point out that the Mini got there 10 years earlier (in 1959), was produced in vastly larger numbers (5.5 million of the little buggers, in all variations), and was produced for 40 years (production finally ended in 2000) with no major changes along the way. A transverse engine was unusual then, and fwd was also unusual. The Mini was the first to marry the two ideas. The idea was STILL unusual in 1969, when the 128 came along.

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Mar 12 2006, 07:49 PM)

As for the FIAT 128 being a "landmark car" due to it's drivetrain layout, I'll point out that the Mini got there 10 years earlier (in 1959), was produced in vastly larger numbers (5.5 million of the little buggers, in all variations), and was produced for 40 years (production finally ended in 2000) with no major changes along the way.  A transverse engine was unusual then, and fwd was also unusual. The Mini was the first to marry the two ideas.  The idea was STILL unusual in 1969, when the 128 came along.

I'd like to point out in my own defense that I said the 128 was "one of" the first, not THE first

If you really want to get technical about it, the Mini loses too, because there was the CORD in the '30s....

Peace, -Mac

Pardon me sir but there was no claim that the Fiat 128 was 'landmark.' It was just the first front-wheel-drive car for Fiat. You are correct about the Mini.

Generally, the 1931 Audi DKW F1 is acknowledged as the first mass-produced front-wheel-drive car in the world, but surely not the
first car ever made that had front wheel drive. That distinction goes to some unkown car maker somewhere that is lost to history and highly disputed, as these things are.

Yes..you're right Mac...the Cord figures in the history of front-wheel-drive.

QUOTE (Duane Estill @ Mar 12 2006, 07:58 PM)

Pardon me sir but there was no claim that the Fiat 128 was 'landmark.'

Pardon me gents, but actually `ahem' I did make the claim the 128 was a -er- "landmark" car just not that it was "the first"

I still think that too, because it did a lot to proliferate fwd especially in the USA

I still remember people laughing when they saw the 128s in my region back in the day, asking who in the hell would want a front wheel drive car and acting like it was from another planet. Then people started buying them...

Now look around and you can hardly find a commuter car that's not fwd...

Never meant to say the 128 was single-handedly responsible, but there's no denying it is "one of" the trendsetters that encouraged fwd into global mass production - as is the Mini

So what is the total weight on an early 1300 car.

or a 1500 for that matter


brant

QUOTE (brant @ Mar 12 2006, 08:39 PM)

So what is the total weight on an early 1300 car. or a 1500 for that matter brant

There's a lot of variation depending on which shop book you believe, but generally...

Fiat 1300 X ('74-'78) = around 2000lb (+ or - 100lb)

Fiat 1500 X ('79-'83) = around 100lb more than 1300

Bertone 1500 X ('83-'87) = around 50lb to 100lb more than Fiat 1500 (depending on options)

Just guesstimates but that's the general ballpark...

Did I mention a lot of us are into boosting power and weight reduction?

QUOTE (Duane Estill @ Mar 12 2006, 06:42 PM)

Stratos prototype......this is really wild......

AND...it was coal powered too!!!!

The book on mine says about 2100lbs. w/AC

I've dumped the AC, the bumpers, rear fan assy, and bits and pieces. I figure I'm under the 1 ton mark.

QUOTE (reddog @ Mar 12 2006, 09:00 PM)

QUOTE (Duane Estill @ Mar 12 2006, 06:42 PM) Stratos prototype......this is really wild...... AND...it was coal powered too!!!!

Sorry man this is Italy we're talking about --- IT WAS PASTA POWERED

I LOVE the X1/9's...I owned three of them all 79's would like to obtain an fuel injected Bertone some day...I have one that I was going to convert to G Production that has been sitting on jack stands (never touching the ground) since 1987!!! I also have a duel carb 40mm DCNF's Webers F1 cam and 40 mm intakes good for 125 HP @ 7000... My STOCK car beat out an Lotus Europa and a GT 350 in a AX (VERY tight course) event way back in 1983...do not take these cars lightly. but I crossed over to you guys because of the smog thing...I guess I have a thing for AXIS engineering

Did you know that the X1/9 was the ONLY car designed to pass the proposed USA 70 mph crash tests? (never adopted) as of a result the chassis is one tough cookie (and over weight)

Yup, and as proven in the Mythbusters episode where they sammiched an X between to semi's. The passenger compartment was pretty much still intact. Well enough for survival of the occupants.

QUOTE (Rooster @ Mar 12 2006, 09:41 PM)

Yup, and as proven in the Mythbusters episode where they sammiched an X between to semi's. The passenger compartment was pretty much still intact. Well enough for survival of the occupants.

WHAT? tell me more...I missed that...

The boys at mythbusters wanted to disprove a myth that if you crush a car between to trucks, it will fuse with the trucks. The two morons couldnt use an escort or a civic, they had to use a seemingly in excellent shape X-1/9 with a blown motor. They were even quite surprised that it survived considerably well.

Their is video out there in innerwebland.

...a little OT, but still Fiat...about the time I bought my 914 in 72, I also considered a BMW2002 and a Fiat 124, the coupe. They also sold the 124 Spider, neat little convertible. The body sheet metal was different from the coupe....both were not bad looking and never really caught on. I think MotorTrend did a few comparison articles ...I'll find some pics.

WOW, you know what? Even I managed to learn one thing that I didn't know about the X from this discussion!

I had said the Bertone X was the only car the coachbuilder themselves ever marketed directly under their own name. I had read that in several historical articles but apparently that is not the case.

A member of our forum has informed me that for a time they also put their name on the Bertone Ritmo Cabriolet, which was a Bertone modified convertible version of what Americans know as the Fiat Strada. The Ritmo Cabrio was never sold in the US market afaik, as a Fiat or a Bertone or anything else.

Apparently it, like the X, wore the Bertone badge in European markets for a while, although I'm not sure how long. I am quite curious about it and will inevitably be looking for more info...

Sheesh, I learn something new every day! ...mostly when I open my big mouth and someone pops up to enlighten me

QUOTE (DblDog @ Mar 13 2006, 12:43 AM)

both were not bad looking and never really caught on.

"Never caught on" Whoa don't let the 'twin cam' Fiat guys hear you say that!!

QUOTE (Rooster @ Mar 13 2006, 03:16 AM)

The two morons couldnt use an escort or a civic, they had to use a seemingly in excellent shape X-1/9 with a blown motor.

Would you have been more upset if they had used a 914?

Ken.....

Is that an American Bulldog in your avatar?

I didn't mean to call anyone on the "landmark" comment, only pointing out that the 128's basic design of a two box car with a tranverse fwd layout was preceded by a decade. The Mini had already swept Europe by 1969, and had already been discontinued in the US by the time the FIAT 128 came along, after being sold here in relatively small numbers for several years.

As for the landmark status of the Mini, it's true that there were quite a few fwd cars before it, but it was the very first with the now almost universal transverse fwd layout. All of its fwd predecessors used a longitudinal engine layout with a longitudinal gearbox either in front of or behind the engine, driving the front wheels. Today, only Audi and Subaru persist in this layout. It was Issogonis' genius that turned the engine sideways and pushed it forward, and pushed the rear wheels all the way back, so that the Mini had a remarkable amount of internal space for a tiny external space. There is more rear legroom in my 1963 Mini than there is in my 1969 FIAT 124 Coupe, despite the Mini being 3.5ft shorter.

Citroen, with the 11 (aka the Traction Avant), beat DKW by some time in producing the first "mass-produced" fwd car in 1937, a car which also featured a unit chassis and hydraulic brakes, all of which had been done before, but no car incorporated all of these then-advanced features in one car before. This car was produced in substantial numbers until 1955, when it was replaced by the even more radical DS.

Cord, Miller, and some British marques all had fwd cars in the 1930s, but they were all very small-volume handbuilt cars.

The fwd revolution didn't really hit the US hard until the mid-1970s, when cars from Honda, Ford (the Fiesta), and VW became popular. I remember very few FIATs from that era, and those I remember were 124 sedans and Spiders, not 128s.