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> Lifters..., What's the least evil? Need opinions...
yeahmag
post Mar 28 2006, 06:39 PM
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I'm putting together a used motor and am darn close to out of money. The cam 'looks' OK, but the lifters are slightly dished. Do I:

1. Put new lifters in it?
2. Regrind the old lifters (I have and extra set that are shot too... so I could pick and choose the best for the regrind)
3. Run 'em and try to forget about it (gonna be really, really hard to do)

Opinions?

-Aaron
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Twystd1
post Mar 28 2006, 06:44 PM
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WELL:

Why are the lifters bad in the first place?

Let's start there for our Q&A session...

Clayton
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yeahmag
post Mar 28 2006, 06:53 PM
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hmm... not sure how to answer that... Guess I'm looking for the "2nd best thing" to do.

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-Aaron
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Bleyseng
post Mar 28 2006, 06:55 PM
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Have the lifters and cam reground to match or you will have big problems
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Twystd1
post Mar 28 2006, 07:20 PM
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Here is what I am thinking.

If your lifters are dished.. the cam is smoked. And so are the lifters.

And what do the cam bearings look like?

For that matter... what does the rest of the engine internals look like?

is this the only issue the engine has internaly?

SO

What cam do you need? 1.7, 1.8, 2.0? Lets see if any of us can come up with a cam and matching lifters for you on the cheap or free.. cause ya just never know!! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)

Clayton
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Twystd1
post Mar 28 2006, 07:28 PM
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Do you by chance have a camera capable of taking tight pics of the cam and lifters?

Clayton
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yeahmag
post Mar 28 2006, 07:59 PM
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I'd need a 2.0 Cam. I do have some carbs I'm rebuilding... so if anyone has a good set that may be an option.

I do have a camera - will take some pics. Cam is still in the motor, but I can get some pics of the lifters tomorrow.

As for the rest of the internals, really it's a guess. But the pistons look brand new!!! This appears to be an extremely low mileage rebuild - I guess it could have just been a top end job though...

Thanks everyone for their help.

-Aaron
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Twystd1
post Mar 28 2006, 08:12 PM
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Get the pics as soon as possible... Etremely CLEAR pics are really needed.. If possible.

Let's see if we can Jake to take a look at em before he goes into Hiatus for a month.

CCC
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Mueller
post Mar 28 2006, 08:15 PM
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QUOTE (Twystd1 @ Mar 28 2006, 06:20 PM)
What cam do you need? 1.7, 1.8, 2.0? Lets see if any of us can come up with a cam and matching lifters for you on the cheap or free.. cause ya just never know!! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)

Clayton

I'm 90% sure all 3 cams are the same....
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craig downs
post Mar 28 2006, 08:15 PM
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BTW If you are running carbs you should consider a different cam. The engine runs horrible with carbs and the stock cam.
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Tom Perso
post Mar 28 2006, 08:35 PM
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You can get a cam and lifters from Jake for around $300 (last I checked).

If you can't swing $300 right now, don't build the engine. Wait and get the right parts. I'd rather see you spend $300 now and make that engine stay together than spend $100 (or whatever) to regrind some marginal cam and then have it go south, only to have to crack the case open, replace the cam and whatever bearings it took out in the process.

Plus, you can get a nice mild grind for a stock displacement carb'd engine.

Only other advice is to run Diesel oil. Shell Rotella T 15W-40 is a good selection. It has a high zinc content to help with scuffing and will help with cam longevity.

Tom
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messix
post Mar 28 2006, 08:53 PM
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are the cam and lifters the from the same engine? meaning were they run together b4 you got them, from this engine or another?
all flat tappet lifter have a slight "dish to them. thats the way there made. the cam is ground to rotate the lifterto give even ware.
check a brand new lifter you'll see.
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Jake Raby
post Mar 28 2006, 09:05 PM
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I have had the lifter issues solved for over a year now... We have had two failures out of 300 cams that have been sold.

As far as reusing a cam and lifters, either leave them 100% as is and reuse them, or start from scratch with new compatible components. Anything else is a game of Russian Roulette that you more than likely won't end up winning.

Oil selection will help, but its not magical. Incompatible materials and profiles will fail even if you ran liquid gold as engine oil.
Thats just the facts.

My solution is not cheap, but the effects if you do have a failure can easily cost you an entire negine. Is your engine worth 300 bucks?

The effects of a cam failure are extreme, metal particles circulating through the oil wear anything and everything immediately.

Anyone who had had a failure will tell you the hassles were worth 10 times the cost of my cam and lifters, the damage can be that much or MORE out of the pocket.
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Demick
post Mar 28 2006, 09:07 PM
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This is the typical cam wear pattern for a VW motor (by the way, this one is REALLY REALLY bad). Look at the top of the lobes, and if you see this wear pattern, your cam is done. The lifters will be concave on the face, but that can be much harder to see.


Attached image(s)
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Jake Raby
post Mar 28 2006, 09:39 PM
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Hmn, that lks like a Hydro cam... was it?
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Mueller
post Mar 28 2006, 10:07 PM
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I have a brand new WebCam that I am not going to use and nobody wanted to buy it.....lent me find the part # and specs of it and if you can AND will use it for sure (not to be tossed in a drawer and forgotten about (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif) ) you can have it for free.....

I bought it about 4 years ago before I knew of Jake (I still have one of his special grind cams, but that one I do plan on using)
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yeahmag
post Mar 28 2006, 10:09 PM
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The cam looks good to me... I'll have to get a picture. I think at this point I should probably try and source another cam and lifters... I'm going down that slippery slope now. I'll call John Edwards and see what it's gonna take for machining and cleaning.

-clean case and tap galley plugs
-check crank
-rebuild rods
-clean and check p/c
-new rings
-new main and rod bearings
-new cam and lifters

Wow... This just got really expensive.
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yeahmag
post Mar 28 2006, 10:14 PM
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Wow. I'm speachless... Thanks Mueller!

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Absolutely I'll use it. I'm slowly rebuilding a set of 40 Dells (34mm vents) and have an old CB Rotary pump from my bug (which I sold and miss dearly) for the fuel delivery side of things. Wonder if I should still use Jake's lifters...

Anything you need from a stock 2.0L?

I think for anything other than stock you need to get a better exhaust, so in case anyone has one lying around I'll be on the look out for a used Bursch or the like.

-Aaron
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Demick
post Mar 28 2006, 10:41 PM
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QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Mar 28 2006, 08:39 PM)
Hmn, that lks like a Hydro cam... was it?

Beat to crap isn't it. I just found the pic on the internet to show the typical wear pattern.

Demick
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Twystd1
post Mar 28 2006, 10:47 PM
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Thanks for the clarity Demick..

I thought it was Slits bald spot..... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif)

Twystd1
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