BUS CV's |
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BUS CV's |
914werke |
Mar 30 2006, 02:34 PM
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#1
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"I got blisters on me fingers" Group: Members Posts: 10,052 Joined: 22-March 03 From: USofA Member No.: 453 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
Ive read a few times that Bus CV's are a viable replacewment for the NLA teen'er CV Joints.
Are they a direct replacement or is there mods necessary along the lines of Andy's 944 abortion...err, updates? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/lol2.gif) |
Porcharu |
Mar 30 2006, 03:09 PM
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#2
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,314 Joined: 27-January 05 From: Campbell, CA Member No.: 3,518 Region Association: Northern California |
The bus CV's and the 944 CV's both have the same spline, bolt pattern, and spline length. They may be the exact same CV or the balls may be a different size.
They are not a bolt on replacement for the 914 CV. A small VW Rabbit inner joint might work if you drill out 2 of the bolt holes to match the 914 drive pins. |
pete-stevers |
Mar 30 2006, 03:22 PM
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#3
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saved from fire! Group: Members Posts: 2,641 Joined: 10-October 04 From: Abbotsford,BC, Canada Member No.: 2,914 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
i have bus cvs in my car, i think that they are a mil or two wider....but they work fine
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Porcharu |
Mar 30 2006, 05:02 PM
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#4
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,314 Joined: 27-January 05 From: Campbell, CA Member No.: 3,518 Region Association: Northern California |
Bus or Bug? Take a look here CV 101 |
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joefri187 |
Mar 30 2006, 07:45 PM
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#5
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 29 Joined: 1-November 05 From: Concord, CA Member No.: 5,047 Region Association: Northern California |
I am using type II axles on my V8 conversion. Type II CV's are 6 bolt and the axle assembly is shorter than the 914. You need adapters to make it work. Renegade Hybrids makes a kit but it is $$$. They won't sell just the adapters. The Type II axles are cheap, so I had some adapters machined and saved some money.
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Dr Evil |
Mar 30 2006, 07:52 PM
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#6
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Send me your transmission! Group: Members Posts: 22,995 Joined: 21-November 03 From: Loveland, OH 45140 Member No.: 1,372 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
VW bus adaptor examples:
Attached image(s) |
Dr Evil |
Mar 30 2006, 07:57 PM
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#7
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Send me your transmission! Group: Members Posts: 22,995 Joined: 21-November 03 From: Loveland, OH 45140 Member No.: 1,372 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
alone
Attached image(s) |
jsteele22 |
Mar 31 2006, 03:21 PM
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#8
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 727 Joined: 24-August 05 From: Colorado Springs, CO Member No.: 4,653 |
Okay, a few questions. 1) To use those adapters, I'm guessing you first bolt them (via 4 countersunk holes) to the stub axle or output flange, then you bolt the CV joints to the adapter (via 6 threaded holes). Is this right ? 2) Are there two gaskets at each end : CV-adapter and adapter-flange ? 3) What kind of bolts to use for the first part (adapter to stub axle/flange) ? Seems like the stock 914 bolts are gonna be way too long, and those bolts are normally some special design with weird-ass heads and washers. 4) I've seen EMPI bus axles (new, not rebuilt) on EBay for around $170/pair. Is EMPI a decent brand ? |
jsteele22 |
Mar 31 2006, 06:48 PM
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#9
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 727 Joined: 24-August 05 From: Colorado Springs, CO Member No.: 4,653 |
Bump for myself (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)
I've been reading back through the archives, and re-reading this thread, and I've got one more qustion. It sounds like the bus CV will fit directly to the 914 stub axle (no adapter) if two of the bolt holes in the CV are drilled out to accept the roll pins. Q) Is this really true ? In the photo of the adapters in this thread, it looks like the bolt circle is not quite the same, but Porcharu says the bolt pattern is the same. And Porcharu, if the pattern is the same, then when you say that it is not a bolt-on replacement, do mean because of the width (thickness) of the bus CV joints and the need to drill out the roll pin holes ? I'm thinking of this for a Subie tranny, so the axle length issue would be made up at the inner CV adapter. |
neo914-6 |
Mar 31 2006, 10:02 PM
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#10
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neo life Group: Members Posts: 5,086 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Willow Glen (San Jose) Member No.: 159 |
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/welcome.png) Check out my signature on non-OEM engine conversions. Us conversion guys will have a meet this summer... |
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Porcharu |
Apr 1 2006, 12:36 AM
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#11
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,314 Joined: 27-January 05 From: Campbell, CA Member No.: 3,518 Region Association: Northern California |
Look a little bit more closely - I said the Bus and the 944 CV's are diminsionally the same only the ball size is different. Look at the web site I posted lots of info there. I also cover what I'm doing for axles in my suby swap pretty well in the "subaru transmission possibility" thead |
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Andyrew |
Apr 1 2006, 05:59 AM
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#12
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Spooling.... Please wait Group: Members Posts: 13,376 Joined: 20-January 03 From: Riverbank, Ca Member No.: 172 Region Association: Northern California |
FYI, you ARE correct with the bus cv joints..
Everything would have to be custom made to fit. Andrew |
slugmika |
Apr 1 2006, 10:11 AM
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 208 Joined: 19-February 03 From: Finland Member No.: 318 |
Bus axles with bus cv's need adapters. Adapters need to be 15mm thick and drilled as in renegades pictures shows. I used 10.9 M8 bolts which were 20mm long. I had lots of problems with adapter bolts backing up and loosen. Luckily they cant totally loosen because of the cv is on their way. It didn't help to use glue so i welded the adapters to stubs.
ever since those have worked fine. Adapters are really easy to machine. Mika |
Cap'n Krusty |
Apr 1 2006, 10:33 AM
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#14
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Cap'n Krusty Group: Members Posts: 10,794 Joined: 24-June 04 From: Santa Maria, CA Member No.: 2,246 Region Association: Central California |
Well, Steve, you've managed a feat of engineering unknown until now. Bus CVs, and Vanagon ones, too, are 100mm OD, and 914 units are 93mm. The bolt holes are correspondingly different, as well. What you've done is the equivalent of me fitting my 36 inch waistline into a pair of size 30 Levis, and zipping them up. Ain't no way, as we sometimes say. One has to surmise you've been misled about the actual origins of your CV joints. Good news is they'll slip right onto the axles, though. (Of course there's always the possibility you have some of those elusive "offset bolts"! The Cap'n |
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jsteele22 |
Apr 1 2006, 06:59 PM
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#15
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 727 Joined: 24-August 05 From: Colorado Springs, CO Member No.: 4,653 |
Okay, think I got it now.
Mika, glad to hear about your experiences. I was imagining that those "hidden" bolts might be a problem, and it sounds like indeed they are. ( Of course maybe you drive your car just a little harder than me (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/driving.gif) ) Welding the adapter to the stub axle sounds like a great solution - as long as the strength/hardness aren't compromised. (I'm just guessing here; don't know much about welding or metalurgy. Not yet (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/welder.gif)) About those adapters : anybody know why there is a hole in the middle ? I'm thinking that the hole just creates a need for another gasket. Given Mika's experience w/ bolts coming loose, would it make sense to weld a blank disk onto the stub axle, then machine it to its final dimensions and drill/tap ? Seems like an easy enough operation, and then you'd have a solid 914/type-II stub axle. |
Andyrew |
Apr 1 2006, 07:09 PM
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#16
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Spooling.... Please wait Group: Members Posts: 13,376 Joined: 20-January 03 From: Riverbank, Ca Member No.: 172 Region Association: Northern California |
The hole in the middle eliminates that big chunk of heavy steel on your rotating assembly..
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Aaron Cox |
Apr 1 2006, 07:23 PM
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#17
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Professional Lawn Dart Group: Retired Admin Posts: 24,541 Joined: 1-February 03 From: OC Member No.: 219 Region Association: Southern California |
weight in the middle is WAY less of a concern than weight on the outside (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif) physics 101 (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif) albeit it helps your unsprung weight (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif) |
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jsteele22 |
Apr 1 2006, 08:18 PM
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#18
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 727 Joined: 24-August 05 From: Colorado Springs, CO Member No.: 4,653 |
Okay, I didn't think of that. Hard to imagine it matters that much, but OTOH, you'd just know thqat extra weight was there... Maybe I'll machine down to a membrane of a few thou, or tap for a screw-in insert of magnesium, or ... Hell, screw it - I've still got steel wheels.... BTW, for lovers of strange and probably untrue facts.. I was reading up on sinuses this week (see my YASC thread for details) and not one but several different web sites claim authoritatively that the reason we have sinuses in our heads is to reduce weight. Google it. Can you imagine all the species that dead-ended because they couldn't check left/check right quickly enough.... I'm sayin' we have sinuses 'cause they're a great place to store up snot. End of discussion. Back to bus CVs. |
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