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Megasquirt STARTS!, my engine IS a fuel pump :/

yarin	Apr 6 2006, 08:21 PM Post #1
'14-X'in FOOL Group: Members Posts: 988 Joined: 13-May 03 From: Guttenberg, NJ Member No.: 693 Region Association: North East States	Megasquirt II V.3.0, Porsche 914 2.0. Fuel only, stock distributor, pertronix ignitor driving stock coil, no extra resistors, no R57, no pullup resistor. Stock 2.0 injectors, low impedence using PWM. I got the car started, it idled like crap but held on. I ran though about 5-6 10 seconds runs with the car idling, probably at around 2k rpm. Its running pig rich, blowing gas out the exhaust. This is why I didnt leave the engine running for too long. I know some of the settings must be WAY off. Maybe its from cranking and not starting excessively. My wideband read full rich. I heard stumbling and popping out the exhaust. The exhaust was literally blowing gas all over. This oil is definitely not going to see any road time, maybe a few more runs to get idle ok then its getting dumped. I bet a decent amount of gas snuck by the rings. Anyway.. onto my major issues: I attached my log files. RPM looks pretty valid, no major spikes. It holds around 1700-1800RPM. This is with the Fidle valve open but blocked off. Why so high? MAP didn't drop below 65, perhaps i have a bad leak somewhere? ignore AFR, i know its full rich. some runs the sensor didnt have time to heat up. How can I be certain the injectors arent stuck open? It's a 4CYL horizontally opposed engine, MS has two injector banks, which bank goes to which cylinders? Someone please double check my setting and make sure i'm on the right road here. I noticed that when i turn the key to the on position the fuel pump runs but then dies after a few seconds. the relay board kills power to the pump which is also tied to my coil power. is this normal? I setup my required fuel to 10ms after seeing it run pig rich, 2L engine, injectors at 24lb/hr, 4, 4, alternating, even fire. the injectors are rated for about 24lb/hr at 3bar. i'm running them at 2bar. my injector characteristics are set to 1.1ms open time, 0.10 ms/v compensation, 78% PWM current limit, 1.1ms PWM time threshold, 66us injector PWM period. If there is any more info that i'm missing please ask and i'll do my best to help you guys help me. This project is really friggin awesome! I can't wait to get this thing tuned right and running. Thanks in advance! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beer.gif) Attached File(s) megasquirt200604062057_idle.msq ( 16.44k ) Number of downloads: 50

yarin	Apr 6 2006, 08:22 PM Post #2
'14-X'in FOOL Group: Members Posts: 988 Joined: 13-May 03 From: Guttenberg, NJ Member No.: 693 Region Association: North East States	914club wont let me attach excel files. whats up with that? here are my data logs. I uploaded screen shots of my setting, here are the links: http://coewww.rutgers.edu/~yarin/914ms/settings.jpg http://coewww.rutgers.edu/~yarin/914ms/ve-afr.jpg http://coewww.rutgers.edu/~yarin/914ms/warmup.jpg Attached File(s) datalog200604062046.zip ( 13.82k ) Number of downloads: 61

jsteele22	Apr 6 2006, 08:52 PM Post #3
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 727 Joined: 24-August 05 From: Colorado Springs, CO Member No.: 4,653	I've got nothing useful to say, except it's great to see that it's "working". Good luck getting this thing going!

turboman808	Apr 6 2006, 09:12 PM Post #4
Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,718 Joined: 31-January 06 From: North Jersey Member No.: 5,505 Region Association: North East States	I watched someone tune a car from nothing. Man what a freaking chore. I lucked out and got other peoples maps when I tuned the civic it was almost dead on with just a few spot to fix.

yarin	Apr 6 2006, 09:12 PM Post #5
'14-X'in FOOL Group: Members Posts: 988 Joined: 13-May 03 From: Guttenberg, NJ Member No.: 693 Region Association: North East States	hmm. ok yikes... PWM should have been set for ~30% not 78%. i'm glad i didnt run the car extensively. i'll change this tomorrow and try again. this would explain why i got tons of gas at idle, especially considering the nature of 2.0 injectors flowing too much already.

Tom Perso	Apr 7 2006, 04:30 AM Post #6
Crazy from the Cold... Group: Members Posts: 647 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Kalamazoo, MI Member No.: 1,003	I think I found 1.7L injectors (rebuilt) for around $40 each at Partsamerica.com I know the 2.0L's work, but man they flow some SERIOUS fuel. With the PWM, you've got a better chance of modulating it better, but a solinoid can only move so fast. Glad to hear it's running though!!! Tom

DNHunt	Apr 7 2006, 06:57 AM Post #7
914 Wizard? No way. I got too much to learn. Group: Members Posts: 4,099 Joined: 21-April 03 From: Gig Harbor, WA Member No.: 598	Get the tuning screen open and get busy. Tune it according to the manual. You won't hurt it at idle. The worst you can do is kill it Way to go Dave

crash914	Apr 7 2006, 07:05 AM Post #8
its a mystery to me Group: Members Posts: 1,830 Joined: 17-March 03 From: Marriottsville, MD Member No.: 434 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region	Good job... don't worry too much. the fuel pump is suposed to run for 2 sec then stop. That is ok. run it enough at idle to get hot then look at getting the AFR correct. Mine has an idle MAP of around 55Kpa and runs at around 1200 rpm

bd1308	Apr 7 2006, 07:16 AM Post #9
Sir Post-a-lot Group: Members Posts: 8,020 Joined: 24-January 05 From: Louisville,KY Member No.: 3,501	way to go man! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

yarin	Apr 7 2006, 07:55 AM Post #10
'14-X'in FOOL Group: Members Posts: 988 Joined: 13-May 03 From: Guttenberg, NJ Member No.: 693 Region Association: North East States	Your 55kpa MAP at idle makes me feel a bit better. I'll try again tonight and tune off the wideband. I think the really high PWM was the reason why it flooded. The 2.0 injectors will work, if they do its just bragging rights for me. I paid $10 for the set and then $50 to have them cleaned/tested. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif) This is the exciting part! I can't wait to go home and tune tune tune! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/mueba.gif) I had a bit of a fuel leak at the rear firewall. The compression fitting on the brake line was dripping, took two tries to tighten it. So far so good, i really had to crank down on them. Anyone else have issues with using brake line? Aside from that I didn't have any leaks, dialed the FPR down towards 29psi.

DNHunt	Apr 7 2006, 09:32 AM Post #11
914 Wizard? No way. I got too much to learn. Group: Members Posts: 4,099 Joined: 21-April 03 From: Gig Harbor, WA Member No.: 598	Yarin My stock engine idled at about 35 KPA so you may have a vacuum leak but leave that for now. PMW probably isn't the reason for the rich condition. The possibilities for the rich condition on the software side are excessive warmup enrichment, excessive and long afterstart enrichment, excessive pulsewidth from to high a value of reqfuel or VE. On the hardware side, malfunction of the CHT or wrong lookup table or malfunction of the MAt sensor or wrong look up table. Let it warmup until it is off of the afterstart and warmup enrichment and then tune the VE table until it idles better. Then worry about PWM. Dave

jsteele22

Apr 7 2006, 09:43 AM

Post #12

Senior Member

Group: Members
Posts: 727
Joined: 24-August 05
From: Colorado Springs, CO
Member No.: 4,653

QUOTE (crash914 @ Apr 7 2006, 06:05 AM)

Good job...

don't worry too much.

And don't smoke ! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/blowup.gif)

yarin

Apr 7 2006, 11:00 AM

Post #13

'14-X'in FOOL

Group: Members
Posts: 988
Joined: 13-May 03
From: Guttenberg, NJ
Member No.: 693
Region Association: North East States

QUOTE (DNHunt @ Apr 7 2006, 11:32 AM)

Yarin

My stock engine idled at about 35 KPA so you may have a vacuum leak but leave that for now. PMW probably isn't the reason for the rich condition. The possibilities for the rich condition on the software side are excessive warmup enrichment, excessive and long afterstart enrichment, excessive pulsewidth from to high a value of reqfuel or VE. On the hardware side, malfunction of the CHT or wrong lookup table or malfunction of the MAt sensor or wrong look up table.

Let it warmup until it is off of the afterstart and warmup enrichment and then tune the VE table until it idles better. Then worry about PWM.

Dave

Dave,

I'm do some digging tonight. I only ran the the car 4-5 times last night for maybe 10 secs each time. I'll change the PWM settings to the correct % and go from there. Warm up enrichment might need a lot of work. i'll get the engine warmed up and go from there assuming it isnt blowing gas out the exhaust. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

crash914	Apr 7 2006, 11:04 AM Post #14
its a mystery to me Group: Members Posts: 1,830 Joined: 17-March 03 From: Marriottsville, MD Member No.: 434 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region	I have a pretty big cam, so the high vacuum reading. I would agree that you need to get past the warm up zone to try to get a good idle reading and dial the idle in first. The mega manual has a very good write up about the steps needed..herb

mightyohm	Apr 7 2006, 03:36 PM Post #15
Advanced Member Group: Benefactors Posts: 2,277 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Seattle, WA Member No.: 162 Region Association: Pacific Northwest	What timing... I installed my Megasquirt V2.2 last night and got all the sensors working. I haven't tried to fire the engine yet (it was late!). I found Easytherm to be a big PITA. At one point I screwed something up and ended up with a bootloader on the MS, and that was it. I had to use Hyperterminal to upload the firmware. That was a little scary! When I was done, my CHT and IAT read within 2 degrees so I was pretty happy... Maybe tonight I will get it to fire. I am expecting a lot of tweaking because I don't know if my engine is a stock 1.7 or not. It always ran lean so I suspect it might be a 1911 or have a strange cam. So I will be tuning it purely by AFR/feel. Jeff

Mueller	Apr 7 2006, 03:58 PM Post #16
914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 17,155 Joined: 4-January 03 From: Antioch, CA Member No.: 87 Region Association: None	good job.....my 1st install I screwed something up and the injectors stayed open with the car off....I noticed when fuel came out the muffler..doh !!!!!

Gint	Apr 7 2006, 05:54 PM Post #17
Mike Ginter Group: Admin Posts: 16,098 Joined: 26-December 02 From: Denver CO. Member No.: 20 Region Association: Rocky Mountains	Nice work. Keep posting your progress please. I'm watching these Megasquirt threads. The zambezi teener might get MS'd in the future.

yarin	Apr 7 2006, 05:58 PM Post #18
'14-X'in FOOL Group: Members Posts: 988 Joined: 13-May 03 From: Guttenberg, NJ Member No.: 693 Region Association: North East States	ran it again till it warmed up. tuned the fuel out a little but its still running pig rich. AFR still <10 but not blowing out mass amounts of gas. its really neat how u can set injector prefs and required fuel and see the changes instantly. neat stuff. i'm gonna change the oil on sunday and try again then. the oil smells like gas, not a good lubricant (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ohmy.gif) the battle continues! i took a bunch of datalogs, i'll check em tonight. i think i saw my MAP down around 30. at one point it idled around 1600, then another time around 3000 and couldnt get it to drop. tach signal looks clean.

yarin	Apr 7 2006, 09:06 PM Post #19
'14-X'in FOOL Group: Members Posts: 988 Joined: 13-May 03 From: Guttenberg, NJ Member No.: 693 Region Association: North East States	Here is a closeup plot of part of my last idle run, car is still on jacks. RPM looks amazingly clean. TPS signal is clean. MAP gets down to 30s. AFR is rich, no doubt about that. Thing idles way too high, no idea where its getting the air from. I blocked off the fast idle valve. Can't wait to really start tuning.. MS ROCKS! Attached thumbnail(s)

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