Which Motor?, Porsche Subaru or Mazda Options

[zeekman914]

I just bought my first 914. A hell blue 1976 2.0. What I want to do it put a bigger motor in it. I was thinking either an RX-7 twin rotor with turbos. A Subaru SVX 3.3L or a Porsche 911T,S,E Motor in it. Which one do you guys think would be the best buy for the power. Any comments or opinions are welcome.
Thanks,
Zach

[ArtechnikA]

a Porsche 911T,S,E Motor

that covers about 12 flavors of engine, in displacements from 2,0 to 3,8 liters.

what do you want to do with the car?
how much do you want to put into this project?

there are no cheap and easy conversions, although some are cheaper and easier than others - and there is no upper bound.

do you want to participate in Porsche Club events? without a Porsche engine, you may find yourself shut out.

what do *you* like? do you like the rotary chainsaw sound? the aircooled flat-6 sound? the rumbly V8 sound?

just about everything that will physically fit in a 914 (and a few that "don't") has been or is being used by someone -- and documented here on the board already...

[Allan]

It's a '76 and you live in California so whatever you decide it's got to pass smog.

Might limit your options..

[Leo Imperial]

Get to know the car and get to know the 2.0
Go to the WCC06 and look at what others have done.
Then you will be really confused, but I am sure you will have some good ideas.
Just take your time. Their are a ton of options and $$$ and time are the limiting factors.
If it is a running car enjoy it.

[lapuwali]

The California thing is going to be a killer. It IS possible to legally do an engine swap, but the engineering required to make the smog system pass at a referee station is far harder than just getting the engine itself to work. You'd need to engineer a catalytic convertor system, and bring over the ENTIRE smog system from the donor car, and somehow make it all fit.

I'd sell the '76 and buy another car, then proceed.

As for engine combinations, the SVX engine has been considered, but I don't know if anyone has actually done it, and you'd be on your own regarding designing and making engine mounts. The rotary has been done a few times, but you'll still be fabricating your own mounts from someone else's designs. The 911 engine has been done many times, and all of the parts required to do the job are available off the shelf, so if you're not keen on doing a lot of your own fab work, this is the way to go.

[WRX914]

Suby WRX will be helpful when considering a car that must be smoged. Here is my subaru 2.0 WRX turboed engine installed in the bay. Very clean install and a whole lot of bang for the buck! Engine and ECU complete for $2K (2004 WRX engine with 4K miles).

Keith

[Mueller]

Suby WRX will be helpful when considering a car that must be smoged. Here is my subaru 2.0 WRX turboed engine installed in the bay. Very clean install and a whole lot of bang for the buck! Engine and ECU complete for $2K (2004 WRX engine with 4K miles).

Keith

Like James mentioned, getting an OBDII motor smogged is going to be tough, if you cannot do the work yourself, you better have deep, deep pockets.....everything has to work, you'll have to add a check engine light and modify the gas tank so that it can be lightly pressurized for the ecu to check for vapor leaks. I don't know how closely the smog refs look at conversions, but I doubt they let everything pass the 1st time.

[lapuwali]

Yes, I wouldn't even considering trying to get an OBDII engine to work in a 914 and be completely smog legal. A 1995 or earlier engine is a minimum requirement unless you want to go mad and spend very big money trying to get it all to work. Faking the sensors, as most people do when fitting a Soob engine using the Soob ECU will probably not pass a referee test. If you tried to do a regular smog check, it MIGHT work, but you'd be crossing your fingers every two years hoping the car passed this time.

[Mueller]

Yes, I wouldn't even considering trying to get an OBDII engine to work in a 914 and be completely smog legal. A 1995 or earlier engine is a minimum requirement unless you want to go mad and spend very big money trying to get it all to work. Faking the sensors, as most people do when fitting a Soob engine using the Soob ECU will probably not pass a referee test. If you tried to do a regular smog check, it MIGHT work, but you'd be crossing your fingers every two years hoping the car passed this time.

my project Volvo 242 is a '76 and I've been looking into engine swaps, so far it appears at least for my application, going with a Volvo turbo motor from the mid-80's is the best solution

[degreeoff]

My $.02

If you want it to be a Porsche....a 911 six....

If you want it to be a bastard....anything else....

I think the 911 engine is soooo sweet in these cars I am doing it myself..it cost bucks to do right but it WILL be worth bucks in the long run.....It is a proven setup MANY MANY MANY X's over ..

Good luck

Josh C

[WRX914]

Suby WRX will be helpful when considering a car that must be smoged. Here is my subaru 2.0 WRX turboed engine installed in the bay. Very clean install and a whole lot of bang for the buck! Engine and ECU complete for $2K (2004 WRX engine with 4K miles).

Keith

Suby WRX will be helpful when considering a car that must be smoged. Here is my subaru 2.0 WRX turboed engine installed in the bay. Very clean install and a whole lot of bang for the buck! Engine and ECU complete for $2K (2004 WRX engine with 4K miles).

Keith

Like James mentioned, getting an OBDII motor smogged is going to be tough, if you cannot do the work yourself, you better have deep, deep pockets.....everything has to work, you'll have to add a check engine light and modify the gas tank so that it can be lightly pressurized for the ecu to check for vapor leaks. I don't know how closely the smog refs look at conversions, but I doubt they let everything pass the 1st time.

This is not what I have come to expect from a Sooby conversion. While mine is still in the garage getting the final fluff and buff, Dana at Renegade has his on the road, smogged and registered. He used the stock wiring harness that he cut about 90% off and plugged it in. No sensor issues at all, no check engine lights, no pressure sensors on the tank. Not one problem at the DMV getting to pass smog tests, not one. This is really not as difficult as you may think.

My $.02

If you want it to be a Porsche....a 911 six....

If you want it to be a bastard....anything else....

I think the 911 engine is soooo sweet in these cars I am doing it myself..it cost bucks to do right but it WILL be worth bucks in the long run.....It is a proven setup MANY MANY MANY X's over ..

Good luck

Josh C

OK...

This Bastard would like to meet you an the track and spank the shit out of ya!

Porsche 6 engine + 914 = big money, and unless you got a turbo'd six you also are a looser at the track up against the Soob.

Soob engine + 914 = not so much (around 5K for the whole swap) and you get the benifit if showing your ass end to all of the other guys on the track.

Just my $.02

[lapuwali]

Is this California, or Nevada?

In California, part of the smog check is plugging into the ODBII port on cars so-equipped, and verifying the data is "reasonable". If the Soob ECU reports everything is OK with 90% of the wiring harness missing, then OK. It would be nearly alone in the OBDII world to do so. Mazda's ECU will trip the check engine light if the gas cap is loose (as the tank won't pressurise).

If you want to do a LEGAL engine swap in California with a smog-controlled car, then you have to visit a referee station post-swap, and they do a much more thorough check than the local smog station does. They then issue a sticker and paperwork that states that this is an "approved" engine swap, so you can't be denying by some local smog station later when they realize a '76 914 didn't originally come with an engine that has SUBARU cast into the engine bits.

If you want to take a risk and just sail though a smog station with the Soob engine w/o visiting a referee station, you might pass. You might even pass most of the time, at most stations. Doesn't mean it's legal. If this is what Renegade does and advocates, well, that's not a practice I'd want to build a business on.

[WRX914]

Let me first say that I do not speak on Renegade's behalf. That being said, we do have a customer/shop mechanic relationship. I listen as close as I can and absorb as much info as I can in various conversations. Here in Nevada, we do not have a referee station hurdle to jump over. The powers that be here in Nevada do not look under your hood to see if you have a VW 2.0 liter or a Suby 2.0 liter... They just think you have the VW TIV. This is very helpful when getting your car to pass. When was the last time you got pulled over, and the cops asked you to see your engine? I am 37 years old, and have gotten many huge tickets speeding, and this has never happened to me. As a matter of fact, a friend and I were hauling down I95 at about 160mph, got pulled over and let go. No engine check. I am not saying that I am being 100% honest in obtaining my smog certificate, but how many of us has bent the truth regarding the purchase price of a used car when attempting registration? I think the good ole gov't getts the best of me more than I do them.

[Mueller]

Let me first say that I do not speak on Renegade's behalf. That being said, we do have a customer/shop mechanic relationship. I listen as close as I can and absorb as much info as I can in various conversations. Here in Nevada, we do not have a referee station hurdle to jump over. The powers that be here in Nevada do not look under your hood to see if you have a VW 2.0 liter or a Suby 2.0 liter... They just think you have the VW TIV. This is very helpful when getting your car to pass. When was the last time you got pulled over, and the cops asked you to see your engine? I am 37 years old, and have gotten many huge tickets speeding, and this has never happened to me. As a matter of fact, a friend and I were hauling down I95 at about 160mph, got pulled over and let go. No engine check. I am not saying that I am being 100% honest in obtaining my smog certificate, but how many of us has bent the truth regarding the purchase price of a used car when attempting registration? I think the good ole gov't getts the best of me more than I do them.

You live in NEVADA...take 2 seconds to look at the location of the original poster...then make a comment (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[WRX914]

Let me first say that I do not speak on Renegade's behalf. That being said, we do have a customer/shop mechanic relationship. I listen as close as I can and absorb as much info as I can in various conversations. Here in Nevada, we do not have a referee station hurdle to jump over. The powers that be here in Nevada do not look under your hood to see if you have a VW 2.0 liter or a Suby 2.0 liter... They just think you have the VW TIV. This is very helpful when getting your car to pass. When was the last time you got pulled over, and the cops asked you to see your engine? I am 37 years old, and have gotten many huge tickets speeding, and this has never happened to me. As a matter of fact, a friend and I were hauling down I95 at about 160mph, got pulled over and let go. No engine check. I am not saying that I am being 100% honest in obtaining my smog certificate, but how many of us has bent the truth regarding the purchase price of a used car when attempting registration? I think the good ole gov't getts the best of me more than I do them.

You live in NEVADA...take 2 seconds to look at the location of the original poster...then make a comment (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

In my best Homer Simpson voice....

Dough!

My bad, you are correct in correcting me. Has anyone tried something like this in Cali? With the Suby?

And you don't have to yell at me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grouphug.gif)

[lapuwali]

I'm happy NV is looser, but the original poster is in California, so Mueller and I were answering as fellow Californians on CA requirements.

If the poster had a '70-'75 914, this would all be a non-issue. But '76 cars are still subject to smog checking here, and thus have to jump through all of the hoops. Hence, my suggestion that he dump the '76 and buy an earlier car.

[Mueller]

back to original q's and engine choices....

a 911T is just barely an upgrade for the amount of money it'll take, if I did a /6 conversion I'd go with a bigger (usally more expensive) engine. Advantage, done 1000's (???) of times so plenty of help and parts

SVX?? why? it's an old motor design, I'd go with the newest Suby /6 or go with a modern suby /4, both of which can be found for not too much money....getting more popular, kit(s) availabe for the /4...seems like one of the easiest motors to install if doing it from scratch and not using a kit....

leave the rotary motors to the rx-7 guys..

[lapuwali]

The SVX is an old motor design that still makes well over 200hp stock, and can be tuned to 300hp. Seems good enough to me...

The 2.4 911T is a nice upgrade, IMHO. Loads more torque, but not so much you have to ever worry about the gearbox. T engines are cheap, and after you recover from the costs of the swap, you can always rebuild a 2.4T into a 2.4E, which is a fabulous engine, or make a short-stroke 2.5, or whatever. It's not hard at all to get 175-180hp out of a 2.4, which is certainly as much as you'd get out of an NA Soob 2.5.

[Rand]

a friend and I were hauling down I95 at about 160mph, got pulled over and let go

You were doing 160mph, and they let you go? Ticketed? Which car? Is there more to this story?

[Mueller]

complete '04 WRX turbo motor with transmission with a claimed 1,000 miles on the combo....on ebay right now....$5.5K

that would be a killer deal....another few grand to install it...hmmmmm, wonder if the wife would notice that on the credit card (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)