Which Motor?, Porsche Subaru or Mazda Options

[warrenporsche]

Just wanted to say thank you!! All of you guys who think you would like a Porsche, but don't want to use the original motor slowly make my stock car more and more rare!! I recommend buying a Mazda, or maybe even a Subaru, they are highly compatible with the engines you are interested in.

[soloracer]

Here is my take on it:


Porsche 4

Reliable, lightweight, keeps the car Porsche, cheap to install but is expensive to get serious power out of it.

Porsche 2.2 or 2.7 Flat 6

Reliable, somewhat lightweight, keeps the car Porsche, a bit more expensive to install and expensive to get serious power out of it. Has that Porsche flat six sound though.

Porsche 3.0, 3.2, 3.6, etc.

Reliable, not as lightweight, keeps the car Porsche, better have a decent budget as it's going to be more expensive to purchase and install engine (especially 3.6), rebuilds will cost more than others, really, really expensive to get in excess of 350 hp.

Chevy V8

Reliable, not lightweight, install kits readily available, good power and torque, lots of tech advice from people who have been there, done that. Fairly commonplace. Cheap to buy engine and rebuild.

Mazda 13B Rotary Non Turbo

Cheap to buy, lightweight, reliable in normally aspirated form, makes good power, not too common so your car will be something different. Need to make your own kit. Not many people understand the engine so getting advice may be tougher. More expensive than V8 to rebuild but cheaper than Porsche.

Mazda 13BREW (Twin Turbo)

Medium price to buy, still lightweight however turbo parts add weight, makes decent power stock and ungodly power modified. Twin Turbo system difficult to keep working correctly in an RX7 let alone on a project car. In fact many RX7 owners convert to single turbo just for this reason. Will need stand alone engine management. Budget will be between V8 and Porsche 6 for both install and rebuilds.

Subaru 3.3 Flat Six (SVX)

Cheap to buy, similar sound and weight to Porsche 6. Decent power stock but very limited aftermarket for performance parts if you want more. Not very common so there won't be much help from those who have been there/done that.

Subaru 2.2 or 2.5 Turbo

Cheap to buy, lightweight, decent power stock and can easily be increased with wide assortment of aftermarket products. Kits available for install. Becoming more common so decent install support available. Probably best all round compromise - not best at any one thing but good enough at most.


Toyota/Lexus V8

Cheap to buy, all aluminum so lighter weight, decent power with 4 valves per cylinder, good reliability. Rev's high and sounds good. Limited aftermarket and not a common swap so little tech support.

Toyota 3SGTE

Bulletproof motor, good power with stock turbo, large aftermarket, lightweight. Not a common swap so limited tech support.

Mazda 3 Rotor (20b)

The big block of rotaries, reliable in non turbo form, cheaper than a Porsche 6 to buy and rebuild, cheaper than Porsche 6 to make over 400 hp in normally aspirated form with proper porting, unique V12 type sound, no kit available for install so you basically are adapting a V8 kit to work (radiator, etc.), unbelievable "WOW" factor - needless to say this is what I'm going with. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)


Now if you have to meet emmissions of any kind forget all about the above swaps and buy yourself a Prius.

[Mueller]

Just wanted to say thank you!! All of you guys who think you would like a Porsche, but don't want to use the original motor slowly make my stock car more and more rare!! I recommend buying a Mazda, or maybe even a Subaru, they are highly compatible with the engines you are interested in.

I dunno, it makes a stock 914 more valuble for those looking for a stock 914, but I think some of these conversions might still make all 914s worth more as more people get exposure to the cars due to conversions. Since that one 914/suby was shown in the magazine, I wonder if that has sparked more interest in 914s and are there a few buyers looking for a good solid car with the intent of doing a conversion??

[jhadler]

Just currious if Cali has any collector/classic car registration program. In Colorado, collector tags are permanent, and you never have to smog the car again so long as you own it. Meaning, once you get the first smog check and register the car, the sky's the limit...

Yeah, from what I remember of Cali laws, you'd need to transplant in a driveline from the same year. Still, that gives you a 2.7L six. Not too shabby....

-Josh2

[cobra94563]

I'm with getting a smog exempt car and then get what ever engine you want...

The test centers I've been to, will know something is up with the visual inspection.
Besides, smog exempt will save $60 every 2 years, and probably make reselling easier.


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[Mueller]

I'm with getting a smog exempt car and then get what ever engine you want...

The test centers I've been to, will know something is up with the visual inspection.
Besides, smog exempt will save $60 every 2 years, and probably make reselling easier.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

of course if one is a masochist, you could always just install whatever motor combo you want and re-do the swap every 2 years....all of the engine conversions should be reversible (the smog guys don't give a hoot if you have a raditor in the front trunk, just drain it and leave it in)

[lapuwali]

There's a clause that allows 35-year-old or older cars to be registered as "collector" cars, which means they must carry collector insurance (mileage limits, etc). They still have to be smogged if they're newer than 1975 (obviously not yet in effect), but they only have to pass a tailpipe test, not the visual/OBDII checks.

The "same year chassis and engine" rule hasn't been true for some time now. Pre-'76, you can pretty much do whatever you like. Post '75, the year of the chassis or the year of the engine WHICHEVER IS NEWER, is what sets the smog rules you have to pass. So, if you stuff a 2004 WRX engine into a 1976 914, you suddenly have a 2004 914 as far as the smog police are concerned, so you have to pass 2004 regs. Hence, you have to carry over 100% of the 2004 engine's smog equipment.

[neo914-6]

Look at the list in my signature, the choices of conversions are increasing. More people want performance technologies that are now common in basic cars. If you like a particular engine, contact the member who's done it and learn from him. This is the benefit of the "club". The first type converters are people who are pioneers, hot rodders, or engineers not collectors or Marque preservationists.

Be aware any new conversion will cost $10k min and hundreds of hours if done thoroughly on top of basic refurbishment of a 35 year old car. There are exceptions and exceptional people but don't kid yourself, R&D is either counted or a given. You can buy R&D in a kit if available but expect to pay a premium...

[Brando]

With a 76... It may be nearly impossible to get a flat-six in there passing smog. Keep it a stock type 4, have a muffler shop weld a catalytic convert in. If it's got a stock exhaust system you'll have a primary muffler that can be replaced with a high-flow cat. There's no O2 sensor to worry about. Put some swaybars on it, drive it, and enjoy it.

Then find yourself a pre 1976 914 for the fun conversion.

[zeekman914]

I got the car for 2500 because the lady next door didn't want it in her garage anymore. So the rotary is out and I think that the Porsche /6 would be WAY too much money to purchase. So I think that a Subaru would be best. SO the reason I was looking at the SVX was because it has 3.3 liters and 233HP. BUT the thought of having a WRX motor would be cool. Do they sound good unmuffled? I want to drive it to high school without mufflers. I don't know what. I guess to draw attention away from the cruddy Nissan's, Honda's, and Acura's LOL.

[nine14cats]

Zeekman,

Check out this thread about smog in CA.

CA Smog Laws for conversions

I ended up selling my 1976 and bought a 1975 to do a Chevy V8 Renegade Conversion.

You will find a phone number in that thread to call. Just talk to the state and figure out if you can pull off what you want to do.....it will be tough but may be possible. You need to cozy up to the referees.

Bill P.

[Mueller]

I got the car for 2500 because the lady next door didn't want it in her garage anymore. So the rotary is out and I think that the Porsche /6 would be WAY too much money to purchase. So I think that a Subaru would be best. SO the reason I was looking at the SVX was because it has 3.3 liters and 233HP. BUT the thought of having a WRX motor would be cool. Do they sound good unmuffled? I want to drive it to high school without mufflers. I don't know what. I guess to draw attention away from the cruddy Nissan's, Honda's, and Acura's LOL.

Without mufflers?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)
If you need to be heard to be seen, you got some issues (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

The WRX motor is turbocharged, so it sorta already has at least one muffling device.....

Easiest thing to do is install a different muffler, the entire '75/'76 exhaust sucks, but not an easy thing to replace nor cheap. The 914 is not a Honda, there are no easy or cheap bolt-on items.

Even with an SVX motor figure $1000 to $1500 for the motor, another $600 for the adapter stuff, another $500 to $1000 for the raditor....it all adds up real quick......

[grantsfo]

(IMG:http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/293c.jpg)

[zeekman914]

I want to be heard BEFORE I'm seen. There is a hill that you hve to go up to get into the upper parking lot by the gym. So going up the hill I want it to be loud and abnoxious BEFORE its seen. THEN I want people to see it and be like "Ooh what's that?"

[grantsfo]

I want to be heard BEFORE I'm seen. There is a hill that you hve to go up to get into the upper parking lot by the gym. So going up the hill I want it to be loud and abnoxious BEFORE its seen. THEN I want people to see it and be like "Ooh what's that?"

(IMG:http://www.fastlane.com.au/Custom_Shed/Ahims_GTi-R_rear.jpg)

[Brett W]

Just bribe the smog guy to get through. It may cost you an extra 100$ but then your won't have the issue.

[WRX914]

The SVX is an old motor design that still makes well over 200hp stock, and can be tuned to 300hp. Seems good enough to me...

The 2.4 911T is a nice upgrade, IMHO. Loads more torque, but not so much you have to ever worry about the gearbox. T engines are cheap, and after you recover from the costs of the swap, you can always rebuild a 2.4T into a 2.4E, which is a fabulous engine, or make a short-stroke 2.5, or whatever. It's not hard at all to get 175-180hp out of a 2.4, which is certainly as much as you'd get out of an NA Soob 2.5.

Ya, we were in his highly modified 930. He has well over 30K in the engine alone. This car is truly sick. At 150, downshift into 3rd and it slams you in your seat.

[WRX914]

I got the car for 2500 because the lady next door didn't want it in her garage anymore. So the rotary is out and I think that the Porsche /6 would be WAY too much money to purchase. So I think that a Subaru would be best. SO the reason I was looking at the SVX was because it has 3.3 liters and 233HP. BUT the thought of having a WRX motor would be cool. Do they sound good unmuffled? I want to drive it to high school without mufflers. I don't know what. I guess to draw attention away from the cruddy Nissan's, Honda's, and Acura's LOL.

And the plot thickens!

Ok, I am back in....

Suby, is the way to go. Loads of inexpensive HP, not too much torque. Perfect for the 914. Additionally it is as close to the original powerplant that today's technology offers.

[zeekman914]

I was also talking with my dad about it and he wanted to know if I thought about a Lexus V8. What do you guys think?

[Brando]

I was also talking with my dad about it and he wanted to know if I thought about a Lexus V8. What do you guys think?

I think we want you to read what's been posted (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead horse.gif)

Smog laws on a 1976 will kill almost every conversion idea in California. You not only have to have all factory smog equipment (smog pump/air injection) but a catalytic converter system and OEM-styled muffler. To top it off, you still have to get clean numbers by today's standards.

Get a pre-76 car to do a conversion.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)