There are no cuss words strong enough to explain, how I feel about my hydraulic clutch Options

[wbergtho]

I have labored for quite some time on the new hydraulic clutch system I have been working on and I felt it was ready to be bled and tested on the road. It appears that no fluid will get to the slave until I first bleed the m/c (per Tilton's instructions). I even took the brake line off @ the m/c and nothing would squirt out. The bleed screw may as well be on the moon. I can't get a wrench or socket on the damn thing and might have to take it out and cut one of the unecessary mounting ears off to effectively reach it with a wrench. Has anyone been there and done this with a Tilton m/c? I thought I could just bleed the slave and get 'er done. Looks like it is a bit more involved than that. Apparently this m/c must be "primed" via bleeding in order for it to squirt fluid? I'm done fu__ing around with it tonight.

Bill (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

[bondo]

Heh, I've been there with my mustang's hydraulic clutch. I'm using a tilton master cylinder on it now. What I do is set my air compressor regulator to like 3 psi and pressurize the reservoir with the slave bleeder open. Works like a charm.

[wbergtho]

So you could disregard bleeding the Tilton m/c and just pressureize it? I'll try that tommorrow. Thanks for the tip.

[Brando]

So you could disregard bleeding the Tilton m/c and just pressureize it? I'll try that tommorrow. Thanks for the tip.

Just like when you power bleed a brake system...

Note: Make sure you have PLENTY of fluid in your reservoir, and don't get it above 14-16psi... You'll crack that slave bleeder valve open too far and get a big gush of fluid, followed by a surge of air if the pressure is real high and the reservoir is low.

[Twystd1]

OR...

You can use a MityVac hand held brake bleeder and SUCK the fluid through the slave bleeder.

Twystd1

[rick 918-S]

OR...

You can use a MityVac hand held brake bleeder and SUCK the fluid through the slave bleeder.

Twystd1

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[Brett W]

The mitty vac is really bad about pulling air into the system. Pressure bleed systems work really well.

[sean_v8_914]

didn't the instructions say to "bench bleed" or "prime" teh master prior to installation?

vacuum draws teh air out of teh fluid itself. its like uncapping a soda can; as pressure drops, teh gasses expand. if you draw a full vacuum on teh fluid for 10 minutes prior to using it to fill the resivoir, it will minimize this issue. also using MUCH less vacuum to get the job done helps alot. less vac takes longer but ...use less than 10 in of vac to prevent off-gassing

[wbergtho]

Hey Sean,

The Tilton instructions never mentioned bench bleeding the unit before install. I'll just power bleed the bitch and be done (or suck it throught the slave).

[byndbad914]

Bill - did you get this figured out? I can assure you that you must either

1. bench bleed the master cylinder (which can be a PITA getting into the car without spilling fluid out onto paint, etc), or

2. pressure bleed after install. this is what I do to keep fluid out of the interior of my car. I bought a Motive pressure bleeder since I have 3 masters in the car and will need to flush fluid regularly with a track car, the $50 was "cheap" v. the time I save with changing out brake fluid. It works with my clutch as well. I think you can buy cheaper ones that work just as well. My first time with the setup I borrowed a buddy's home fabbed one made from a pesticide sprayer and it worked like a charm as well. I was too lazy to make my own (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

The Tilton instructions say to bench bleed, but you are just like me - I doan need no steenking instructions (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) Any time you have a new master, you have to bench bleed the air out of the master before install, or pressure bleed after install.

Those handheld MightyVacs are a PITA v. a pressure bleeder. I can pressure bleed a line in under a minute. the Mighty Vac, man I haven't needed to pump something like that since I turned 13

[andys]

Bill,

When practical, I always prefer to REVERSE bleed everything. It always seems to produce better results quickly. You'll need a way to pressurize a reservoir of brake fluid; a pressure pot works well. Just make sure you clamp the line to the bleed screw, or you'll have a mess; use a regulator. After initial bleeding, come back the next day and do a traditional bleeding (though you should always do this anyway).

Andys

[wbergtho]

I bled the system through the slave with a Mityvac. It worked well enough so that I could do a traditional bleed. I got all the bubbles out only to find that my 3/4" Tilton only moves my slave 5/8" and i need a minimum of 3/4" to release my KEP pp! Great luck...huh? Anyone need a nice new tilton 3/4" m/c? It apparently works for other people with pps closer to stock. I will try a 15/16" Tilton next and live with the extra 56% increased pedal effort. Still better than the 2000 lbs of pressure i had with the old cable. This hydraulic clutch conversion has turned out to be a stubborn bitch...but I will have it all sorted out by wednesday when my new m/c shows up. All the bracketry, lines, slave bracket...etc have been fabbed and all i need to do now is install the larger m/c. I'll let you all know how it works and feels when i finally get this red headed step child of a problem solved.

[bondo]

I bled the system through the slave with a Mityvac. It worked well enough so that I could do a traditional bleed. I got all the bubbles out only to find that my 3/4" Tilton only moves my slave 5/8" and i need a minimum of 3/4" to release my KEP pp! Great luck...huh?

Oh man, been there too. I went through 2 master cylinders and about 5 slaves before getting the "baby bear" combo on my Mustang. (now it's "just right"..)

[drive-ability]

I bled the system through the slave with a Mityvac. It worked well enough so that I could do a traditional bleed. I got all the bubbles out only to find that my 3/4" Tilton only moves my slave 5/8" and i need a minimum of 3/4" to release my KEP pp! Great luck...huh? Anyone need a nice new tilton 3/4" m/c? It apparently works for other people with pps closer to stock. I will try a 15/16" Tilton next and live with the extra 56% increased pedal effort. Still better than the 2000 lbs of pressure i had with the old cable. This hydraulic clutch conversion has turned out to be a stubborn bitch...but I will have it all sorted out by wednesday when my new m/c shows up. All the bracketry, lines, slave bracket...etc have been fabbed and all i need to do now is install the larger m/c. I'll let you all know how it works and feels when i finally get this red headed step child of a problem solved.

Hey,
I assume your using a 7/8 slave along with the 3/4 master and floor mount pedal. I had the same trouble, I went up to a 1" plus and just couldn't depress the pedal. In fact at first I thought it was locked up Ha nope it was took about 150 lbs of pressure to move it. I ended up changing the pedal angle, maxing out the use of the master via the piston and adding 1 1/2 inch to the pedal length. If your using a 7/8 master with a short fork it will be a real challenge to depress the clutch more than a few times. I'm not saying don't do it just be ready.
I'm no expert, but I did spend a lot of time on the same project. I have something that works, now I am getting all new parts because of all the hammering and grinding on the old ones they look like crap.

[wbergtho]

I'm using a 15/16" master and i may have to change the angle of the pedal casting and refab the pedal length like you did. i expect it to be a bitch to depress. What m/c & slave did you use? I'm using a Tilton m/c and a Wilwood 7/8" slave.

Does anyone know if it would be possible to hook a booster up to the m/c for a little power assist? Does the m/c have to have special provisions built into it to utilize a power booster set up? I think it would be trick to have a boosted clutch m/c....but the only problem is where do you mount all this shit...not to mention the added weight. I would prefer to keep my car less complicated than the space shuttle!

Bill

[andys]

Bill,

Don't know how you'd make one of their products work on the Tilton pedal setup, but try a company called MICO. They're more geared to industrial applications. They make a dual stage master, i.e. high-volume low pressure/low-volume high pressure. Street rod guys used to use them when power assisted brakes were not an option.

One more thought, in case the above is not an option. Does your Wilwood slave have a spring return? Most modern slaves are forward sprung in order to keep the pedal up, and avoid constant adjusting. With this, the throw out bearing constantly rides against the diaphram fingers (though at a very low force). If you did the same, you might realize enough travel and keep the pedal effort at a reasonable level.

Andys

[wbergtho]

Thanks Andys for the info on MICO. I'll check it out.

[drive-ability]

I'm using a 15/16" master and i may have to change the angle of the pedal casting and refab the pedal length like you did. i expect it to be a bitch to depress. What m/c & slave did you use? I'm using a Tilton m/c and a Wilwood 7/8" slave.

Does anyone know if it would be possible to hook a booster up to the m/c for a little power assist? Does the m/c have to have special provisions built into it to utilize a power booster set up? I think it would be trick to have a boosted clutch m/c....but the only problem is where do you mount all this shit...not to mention the added weight. I would prefer to keep my car less complicated than the space shuttle!

Bill

First thing I tried a booster and I didn't like how it felt, at the time I had a skewed pressure plate and didn't know it. I had that repaired (KEP) and now I have a short 3/4 master cheep ones sold on EBAY and a Wilwood pull type slave which is 7/8. The master has about 1.3 inch throw and the slave about 1.4 .
My clutch fork is 6 inches long and I use 95% of the available slave travel to get it to work. I had it at first set up too tight against my T/O bearing and waisted my crank thrust bearing. That meant going through the lower end of a new motor. Not fun but sh*t happens. Just be careful not to ride on the T/O at all. Using a floor type pedal I removed some of the pedal metal so I could gain a little more travel in the rod area. There is a natural stop set up in the pedal where the pedal hits the rod or its threaded block. I removed some steel there , then added some more pedal length for leverage. In doing that I had to move the fuse block from under the dash to the speaker grill area. That was not hard to do, there is enough wire slack to move it there. I am sure there are other ways but it works well for me. I like to do everything and most times I have to do it multiple times to get it right.
Below is a link to a master, its just like the one I used.

Much like my master

[Brando]

OR...

You can use a MityVac hand held brake bleeder and SUCK the fluid through the slave bleeder.

Twystd1

Issue I've always had with the little hand-held mityVac is that it will suck air past bleeder nipple adapter.

[wbergtho]

Hey Drivability,

I've seen many of your posts and I like your project. I had trouble with my KEP's pressure plates too. My 915 set up was sent back 5 times and my 930 set up twice. They just love to send shit out before checking to see if it actually works...what quality control?

I called Tilton and they said a Tilton 3/4" m/c coupled with a Wilwood 7/8" slave will yield only 5/8" travel at the slave. I unfortunately verified this with my 5" lever arm. I remember my stock 5 1/4" arm needed 3/4" sroke travel to release my pp. That is why I'm moving up to a bigger Tilton. Everything is already fabbed up for a Tilton. I suppose I could easily use something else though.