EFI/DIS, Who makes a good integrated system for an SBC Options

[riverman]

I'm still doing my homework for my V8 conversion and now I'm looking into fuel injection and ignition solutions. My main concerns are performance (more efficiency than horsepower) and space. I like the idea of being able to 'tune' the injection system to for optimal performance over all rev ranges and it seems that it is possible to do the same with the aftermarket distributorless or crankfire ignitions as well. What I haven't seen yet is a fully integrated system where one controller (computer) controls both systems and optimizes them to work together.

Also, it seems that if you could do away with the distributor you could solve the clearance issue with the rear trunk. I can't seem to find any pictures of a set-up to see how a DIS looks and how much space it takes up. Does anyone have any experience or know-how in these areas?

[turbo914v8]

I'm still doing my homework for my V8 conversion and now I'm looking into fuel injection and ignition solutions. My main concerns are performance (more efficiency than horsepower) and space. I like the idea of being able to 'tune' the injection system to for optimal performance over all rev ranges and it seems that it is possible to do the same with the aftermarket distributorless or crankfire ignitions as well. What I haven't seen yet is a fully integrated system where one controller (computer) controls both systems and optimizes them to work together.

Also, it seems that if you could do away with the distributor you could solve the clearance issue with the rear trunk. I can't seem to find any pictures of a set-up to see how a DIS looks and how much space it takes up. Does anyone have any experience or know-how in these areas?

Problem solved with one word Electromotive. Its the full soulition. I am currently using the system and have been for a number of years. Hands down one of the best fully intergrated EFI|DIS systems on the market.

Electromotive for v8 applications

[lapuwali]

Megasquirt with EDIS (so-called MSnS) will also work, for about 10% of the price of an Electromotive system. Lots more DIY.

SDS will also work, for about 50% of the Electromotive price.

[azbill]

Take a look at the Emerald M3D system. It will handle the complete engine management and it's programed with a laptop.

www.emeraldperformance.com

[lapuwali]

Answering your specific DIS questions:

You can get rid of the distributor, but you will need a trigger wheel on the crankshaft to fire the ignition. This usually spaces the crank pulley out a bit, and there's not a lot of room to do that, either. Which crank wheel you need depends on the system you use. Electromotive requires a 60-2 toothed wheel (60 evenly spaced teeth with two missing), where EDIS uses a 36-1 wheel. SDS and Perfect Power use magnets attached to the crank pulley, five in the case of a V8 (one for TDC on each cylinder pair, with a 5th for 40 degrees prior to TDC on cylinder 1), which can take up less space that a trigger wheel.

If you can fit the trigger, then the rest is fairly easy. There will be a four coil pack, each coil firing two cylinders. These coil packs are not all that large, and can be mounted off to the side or on the firewall, so there shouldn't be any clearance problems with it.

Mounting the ECU itself is another thing to consider. Megasquirt and SDS aren't waterproof, and generally can't take engine bay heat, so you usually have to mount them in the cabin. On the firewall behind the passenger seat is a common option. You'll need to run a sizeable wiring harness through the firewall to do this. The stock wiring harness hole is actually pretty large, so the wires should fit, but you'll need to do your own custom sealing, since the stock rubber tube won't accomodate the extra wires for the ECU.

[turboman808]

Megasquirt with EDIS (so-called MSnS) will also work, for about 10% of the price of an Electromotive system. Lots more DIY.

SDS will also work, for about 50% of the Electromotive price.

That megasquirt would be such a fun project (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drunk.gif)

[TimT]

Haltech!!!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif)

not that Im biased or anything

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

[turboman808]

Haltech!!!

Hondata (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) wait nevermind

I downloaded the haltech software. Talk about old school!!! Do they make a graphic interface at all? Heck I used it on a camaro back in 91 I beleive and it looks exactly the same.

[byndbad914]

Problem solved with one word Electromotive. Its the full soulition. I am currently using the system and have been for a number of years. Hands down one of the best fully intergrated EFI|DIS systems on the market.
Electromotive for v8 applications

I am going to chime in here and agree with the Electromotive unit. Not cheap, but my understanding is very simple, durable, and user friendly. I know a bunch of guys using them on twin turbo'd 5.0 Mustangs and trust me, this group is a CHEAP group of guys - makes us 914 guys look like big spenders - so they do everything on the cheap EXCEPT they all pays the $$ to get the EM units. Built a bunch of engines for Pantera guys as well and all the f.i. conversions tended to be the EM units.

I was going to use one myself, but frankly I can make the same power with a carburetor much, much cheaper and easier. I do understand the desire for f.i. on a street-driven, daily-driver car (or anything boosted).

Also, keep in mind you will need some sort of dummy distributor to run your oil pump unless you are going dry sump. That said, there were late-90s Camaros and such that had 350s with a dummy distributor (the distributor rotor and cap area is not there anymore) and I was going to look into getting one of those from a local dealership.

[Mueller]

I downloaded the haltech software. Talk about old school!!! Do they make a graphic interface at all? Heck I used it on a camaro back in 91 I beleive and it looks exactly the same.

who gives a rats @ss what the interface software looks like as long as it works and can be navigated easily (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)

it wasn't till just a few years ago MoTec starting using the "pretty" windowz like programs for people to get all giddy over (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

the uM processors inside the ECU's are all written with same language and they don't care what buttons you have to push to make 'em do thier thing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[TimT]

Which software release are you playing with?

HalwinX has 3D maps etc.. full "graphical interface" but thats kinda bling. The DOS software is easy and intuitive.. it shows exactly where the engine is operating, so you just tune the load site in question.

What I haven't seen yet is a fully integrated system where one controller (computer) controls both systems and optimizes them to work together

Dont take this in the wrong way, but there are many EFI systems that combine fuel and spark control.. from EFI Technologies, Pechtel, Motec, Marelli (World Class) to the Autronic, Haltech, Electromotive level of refinement.Then there is entry level stuff SDS, and DIY Megasquirt.. AEM ..its hard to keep up

Electromotive makes a very nice system now..years ago with the TEC-1/2 etc the software was byzantine, the build quality was an issue.. The TEC-3 is a horse of a different color.. easy software, and reliable hardware..

There are many systems that can control your engine. You just need to weed through them all and sort by features/cost etc..

[riverman]

I love this place! Post a question, go play a round of golf and come back to a bunch of good answers. Thanks for all the information. Now that I've got some places to look, I can dig a little deeper and find what will work best for me.

[ajracer]

Greetings Doug:

It all comes down to the $$$; trust things are going well; and will you be on the road this summer ?? Hopefully you are using the conversion pieces I sold you last year. BTW if you decide to run no distributor and need a gear drive unit for the oil pump, I just happen to have one left from my LT1 V8 conversion. Since I decided to engineer backwards ten years, I installed a distributor and currently running a carb. thus the little gear drive is available if interested. All the Best !

Allan

PS. The boxster tranny is very smooth and shifts like a dream !