 Track tires, what have you used? |
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| grantsfo |
 May 19 2006, 12:01 AM
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#21
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Arrrrhhhh!  Group: Members Posts: 4,327 Joined: 16-March 03 Member No.: 433 Region Association: None  |
Yep Summit says 7 inch only
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.a...15&autoview=sku My Kuhmo 710s arrived today - very nice! |
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| SirAndy |
May 19 2006, 10:12 AM
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#22
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,625 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(grantsfo @ May 18 2006, 11:01 PM)  Yep Summit says 7 inch only QUOTE Minimum Recommended Rim Width (in): 7.00 in. Maximum Recommended Rim Width (in): 7.00 in. how about that? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/owned.gif) Andy |
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| nebreitling |
May 19 2006, 10:18 AM
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#23
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Member Emeritus Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-March 03 From: San Francisco Member No.: 478 |
i've heard of people mounting canti's on everything from 6-8" wide wheels. look at hoosier's tire charts, and you'll see a range of 6-8", with 7" being recommended.
goodyear may be different. but whatever. |
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| nebreitling |
May 19 2006, 10:19 AM
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#24
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Member Emeritus Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-March 03 From: San Francisco Member No.: 478 |
btw, nieslony runs his rear goodyear cantis on 8" rims, and his front on 7".
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| SirAndy |
May 19 2006, 12:17 PM
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#25
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,625 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(nebreitling @ May 19 2006, 09:18 AM) but whatever as stated in my previous posts, i know nothing about the hoosier slicks, or kuhmos or whatever. that's why i don't make any comments on those ... racing is dangerous enough already the way it is. recommending to stretch a racing slick on a rim it was not designed for is just plain stupid and a recipe for a tragedy. - best case scenario: nothing happens, all is fine - worst case scenario: the tire comes off the rim at 120mph at searspoint and the guy dies is this really what you're after? if so, remind me to never share the big track with you guys, as i value my life ... it's one thing to substitute homedepot for a raceshop when it comes to accessories, but playing/cutting corners with the very thing that keeps you in a straight line at 120mph is just plain stupid. and recommending it to other people is borderline criminal ... again, look at the picture i posted on the previous page. all but one tire are designed for a 7" rim. 7" rim *only*. this was done to accomodate the club racing rules that only allow up to 7" rims for some of the more popular racing classes. both of you guys, trekkor & nathan (i don't know about JP) have never even run goodyear slicks yourself. how can you even make a statement like that? what if a newbie comes in here and see's your postcounts and thinks you actually know what you're talking about. and then ends up dead a month later ... did i mention that i feel very strongly about this? safety should always come first on anything track related, not your ego ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Andy |
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| nebreitling |
May 19 2006, 12:27 PM
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#26
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Member Emeritus Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-March 03 From: San Francisco Member No.: 478 |
okay, but i feel it's fairly extreme to construe my 'whatever' statement as criminal negligence. Rather, i intended it as a disclaimer to the effect that:
a) i have not run these tires, but am considering doing so (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) i have seen and heard (countless times) of rims from 6-8" being used on cantis with NO anecdotes of failure due to rim width c) i specifically disclaimed goodyear from the discussion d) i have absolutely zero ego on the line with regards to this argument. so there!! :beer: |
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| DanT |
May 19 2006, 01:26 PM
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#27
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Going back to the Dark Side! Group: Members Posts: 4,300 Joined: 4-October 04 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 2,880 Region Association: None |
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| SirAndy |
May 19 2006, 01:27 PM
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#28
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,625 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(nebreitling @ May 19 2006, 11:27 AM) i have seen and heard (countless times) of rims from 6-8" being used on cantis with NO anecdotes of failure due to rim width i was talking explicitly about the goodyear slicks, so i can't and won't speak for any other brad cantilever slicks ... again, anybody who promotes the use of *goodyear* slicks on rims other than the size listed by the manufacturer just lost all their credibility will me, no matter how old you are or how much experience you might have otherwise ... you're playing with peoples lives ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) Andy |
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| Trekkor |
May 19 2006, 02:12 PM
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#29
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I do things... Group: Members Posts: 7,809 Joined: 2-December 03 From: Napa, Ca Member No.: 1,413 Region Association: Northern California |
I don't recall ever recommending anyone do anything with the Goodyears...I made a few wiseguy remarks, I give you that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/naughty.gif)
I've spent a good amount of time looking at tire charts for nearly every tire manufacturer. Most give acceptable rim sizes and measurements on a specific rim size. http://rogerkrausracing.com/GY1.html KT |
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| jhadler |
May 19 2006, 02:32 PM
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#30
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Long term tinkerer... Group: Members Posts: 1,879 Joined: 7-April 03 From: Lyons, CO Member No.: 529 |
It's not directly specific to the issue of stretching cantilever tires onto wider rims, but this tire tech article at RS racing is very handy...
Tire Tech Ron Vermulm is the guy behind RS racing, a really nice guy... -Josh2 |
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| SirAndy |
May 19 2006, 03:14 PM
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#31
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,625 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(trekkor @ May 19 2006, 01:12 PM) Most give acceptable rim sizes and measurements on a specific rim size. http://rogerkrausracing.com/GY1.html i must be blind! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) i count 4 (four!) out of at least 100 tires that give a "range" of accepteable rim sizes, *all* other tires are for one (and i mean one!) rim-size only ... please tell me what you see on that chart that i don't ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Andy |
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| Trekkor |
May 19 2006, 03:33 PM
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#32
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I do things... Group: Members Posts: 7,809 Joined: 2-December 03 From: Napa, Ca Member No.: 1,413 Region Association: Northern California |
My "most" was not for just that chart. I mean most charts.
KT |
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| SirAndy |
May 19 2006, 03:39 PM
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#33
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,625 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(trekkor @ May 19 2006, 02:33 PM) My "most" was not for just that chart. I mean most charts. ok, so we agree then? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) yes, most charts, especially street tires, give you a range of acceptable rim sizes for a tire. i agree, no problem there ... for the goodyear slicks, however, the manufacturer is very clear about the fact that their slicks only fit *one* size rim, and not a whole range of rims. please, do *not* stretch your goodyear slicks onto a rim size that it is not approved for by the manufacturer. please. and if you do, or think it's acceptable to do so, please stay away from me on the track ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/KMA.gif) Andy |
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| jhadler |
May 19 2006, 03:49 PM
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#34
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Long term tinkerer... Group: Members Posts: 1,879 Joined: 7-April 03 From: Lyons, CO Member No.: 529 |
Here's the thing...
There's a WORLD of difference between racing slicks and DOT radial tires. They are totally different creatures. Just a quick outline: Radial tires are very rigid along the treadface, and relatively soft along the sidewalls. This means that the tires can fit onto a "range" of rim widths without grossly distorting the treadface. Bias ply tires are very ridig along the sidewalls, and very soft at the treadface. This means that the treadface (contact patch) will distort if you mount the tire on a rim width that it was not designed for. _SOME_ slicks can work with a range of rim widths, depending on the manufacturer, and others most assuredly CANNOT. These are just the gross manufacturing differences between the two. Needless to say, the radical construction differences mean that suspension setup and driving technique much change between the two. And anyone that says otherwise hasn't optimized their setup on either side... -Josh2 |
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| SirAndy |
May 19 2006, 04:33 PM
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#35
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,625 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(jhadler @ May 19 2006, 02:49 PM) Just a quick outline: Radial tires are very rigid along the treadface, and relatively soft along the sidewalls. This means that the tires can fit onto a "range" of rim widths without grossly distorting the treadface. Bias ply tires are very ridig along the sidewalls, and very soft at the treadface. This means that the treadface (contact patch) will distort if you mount the tire on a rim width that it was not designed for. _SOME_ slicks can work with a range of rim widths, depending on the manufacturer, and others most assuredly CANNOT. that about sums it up and that's all i have to say about this ... i'm done ... do as you please, but stay away from me while i'm out there ... good luck! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) Andy |
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| J P Stein |
May 19 2006, 04:52 PM
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#36
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
Bill:
Thanks for the info, but (not to sound like a smart ass) this is old news to some of us. Now smart ass mode: Apparentely, we of the hinterlands (anything outside of the bay area) are unacceptable sources for any sort of information relating to this subject matter. The "you're gonna die & take some innocent with ya" demagoguery was a bit much....but I'm sure there is more where that came from. You being a member of the inner circle (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) may convince others that they should reconsider their position. If there was a good R35 straight side slick in the 8.5/9.0 inch range, I wouldn't use the effin' cantis......the reason would probably start another round of "you're fulla shit" so I'll keep my own council on this one. |
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| J P Stein |
May 19 2006, 05:32 PM
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#37
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
Hay, Bill:
My 240Z buddy tells me that he talked to Goodyear about the cantis on 8s and they gave him the go-a-head some time back....so they are consistent. He's been running them on 8s for years......too damn quickly, I might add. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) As a matter of fact, he's running your ex cantis now......sorry, I couldn't find a P car for em' (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) In my search for traction I came across the 4ea 10 X 16s with a pair of slicks so the ones I got from you (a hell of a buy, btw) got passed along (for a hell of a buy) to him as his were toast. He killed me twice this season on em' so far....but still can whupp his little blond 17 year old grandaughter....wonder how long that'll last (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) |
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| Trekkor |
May 19 2006, 05:34 PM
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#38
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I do things... Group: Members Posts: 7,809 Joined: 2-December 03 From: Napa, Ca Member No.: 1,413 Region Association: Northern California |
Sooooo...On to other tires. I've got 11 track days on my calender, not including GGR TT series.
I *must* order tires today or Monday if I want to have them ready for Friday. I just can't decide which I want. 710's, Hoosier R's or Toyo's... or other? My track days are not racing, so times aren't critical. I'm looking for longevity and consistant grip over the life of the tire. Number of heat cycles before garbage would be nice to know. I need to keep this new set off the a/x track as that destroys tires and due to the track use, they aren't competitive either. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/help.gif) Also with the Toyo's. I know for dry racing, they get 'em shaved for better performance. ( Spec Miata tire ) Since I need life of tire, can I run them unshaved for longer life or will I be disappointed due to the squirmy feel? Thanks, KT |
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| DanT |
May 19 2006, 05:36 PM
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#39
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Going back to the Dark Side! Group: Members Posts: 4,300 Joined: 4-October 04 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 2,880 Region Association: None |
Bill,
Are you still trying to pass off that chassis on some unsuspecting sole? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) This is an interesting discussion. I am surprised at the amount of peptic acid being churned up by this. If you spoke to the goodyear folks, I would think that would be a pretty definitive answer. Also the experience of folks like RKR, and other such should be sufficient to quell most fears or concerns. I have been running TT/DE/AX for quite a number of years (16+) and have never personally witnessed any tires of any type coming off the bead of the rim. I have run against cars on street tires, DOT Rs, Cantis and real live slicks. It is something that just doesn't seem to ocurr very often. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) |
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| DanT |
May 19 2006, 05:38 PM
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#40
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Going back to the Dark Side! Group: Members Posts: 4,300 Joined: 4-October 04 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 2,880 Region Association: None |
Trekkor,
You aren't considering Kumho Victoracers? I am enjoying the grip of mine.... |
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