 Best Chevy SB for conversion, I want to start the hunt for the short block |
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| Jaiden |
 Jun 1 2006, 08:53 AM
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#1
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Member  Group: Members Posts: 346 Joined: 13-January 05 From: Stroudsburg PA Member No.: 3,443  |
Now the question is what's the recommended set-up to have the most parts availbility/ ease of install.
Early block? late block? Vortec heads? Standard heads? Give me the low down so I can get a motor. Once I get the motor there will be no stopping me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) Well except all the other parts for the conversion (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) Don't hold your breath on this one since I just dumped a grand into the front end rebuild but I'll get it started! |
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Replies(20 - 39)
| GWN7 |
Jun 1 2006, 04:20 PM
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#21
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King of Road Trips Group: Members Posts: 6,280 Joined: 31-December 02 From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada Member No.: 56 Region Association: Northstar Region |
QUOTE(Jaiden @ Jun 1 2006, 01:52 PM)  Guys let's stay on focus. I'm not concerned with the engine peformance parameters at this point I'm concerned with fitment. I know the problem with the gearing of the 901 and the conflict between the engine torque and the 901's more fragile parts. So again which SBC old... New... LT1... LS1 will be the best in terms of fitment and conversion parts availability. Like is there a problem with the LT1 manifolds being to tall or the vavle covers on the early sb's having more clearance with the fire wall? Basically which motor will fit in the engine bay with the least issues. They all fit basicly the same....notch for dist, dimple firewall for left valve cover, the only difference is the height of the intake and that is a matter of choice... Nice offer Jim, wish I was closer (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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| Dr. Roger |
Jun 1 2006, 04:27 PM
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#22
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A bat out of hell. Group: Members Posts: 3,944 Joined: 31-January 05 From: Hercules, California Member No.: 3,533 Region Association: Northern California |
hey jaiden, you've got to check out wbergtho's V8 914 if you haven't already..... he's got all the bases covered with the all aluminum engine and rad trans solution. clean final product. two thumbs up in my book.
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| Mueller |
Jun 1 2006, 04:28 PM
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#23
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 17,146 Joined: 4-January 03 From: Antioch, CA Member No.: 87 Region Association: None 
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QUOTE(Dr. Roger @ Jun 1 2006, 09:22 AM) aluminum heads are approximately 25lbs lighter, per head, than cast iron. $2000 for alum heads devided by 50lbs = $40 per lb in weight savings. If you've got the cash go for it. =-) I'm a CSOB. LOL You can buy brand new, fully assembled Aluminum heads for $900 a pair......pick a brand, Eldebrock, Trick Flow plus others... |
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| Bigbohr |
Jun 1 2006, 04:30 PM
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#24
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Superlurker Group: Members Posts: 224 Joined: 19-September 03 From: Houston, TX Member No.: 1,176 |
"most parts availbility/ ease of install" = Gen I SBC
For lower cost use iron Vortec heads. Better flow makes up for the weight over Alu. Get a long block from a decent rebuilder. Otherwise get a (short)block from a rebuilder and buy Alu heads. That's what I'm doing. |
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| Thack |
Jun 1 2006, 04:41 PM
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#25
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Member Group: Members Posts: 283 Joined: 1-June 05 From: Houston, Tx Member No.: 4,182 |
Why not use the new 4.6 ford motors? No distributor and they are smaller engines. Plenty of them too. You could carb it or leave the FI and put the ECU in the trunk.
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| byndbad914 |
Jun 1 2006, 05:01 PM
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#26
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shoehorn and some butter - it fits Group: Members Posts: 1,547 Joined: 23-January 06 From: Broomfield, CO Member No.: 5,463 Region Association: None |
yet another opinion...
do you want to run fuel inj or carburetor? If f.i., then get the late model LS series engine complete with f.i./harness/computer and put that in. The late model heads can be ported to flow 300cfm+ (MORE than plenty for over 500HP), and there are a lot of parts available and more becoming available for those, so you have performance options with that setup. If carbureted, then there aren't much for manifold options on the late stuff. In that case, a Gen 1 is the better choice as there are about a million intake manifold options for that, let alone every bolt-on known to man. Also, don't use Vortec heads or any factory GM head for that matter. Get a set of AFR CNC ported heads that flow 286cfm off-the-shelf, work with a ton of manifolds, and are around $900 to $1100/pr depending on parts used in assembly (quality of valves/springs/retainers). Absolute best bang for the buck heads. Use a later hyd roller cam block and a nice streetable hyd roller cam. Or, if not very savvy at all with engines, buy a crate Gen1 carbureted setup and bolt it in. About as easy as it can get. On topic = installation won't be much easier either way you go - they both need some fitting. I think you need to focus more on what you want to do with the engine once it is in and get the best choice for the future mods you wish to make. Elaborating = trust me, you'll put in 300HP and that is just crazy-insane. Then you drive it for awhile - you know 300HP isn't that much... I could go to 400HP. Whoa now that would be crazy-insane! Then you drive it for awhile, you know, 400HP isn't that much and that trans was on it's last leg anyway. How about 450HP and conversion to a 915 trans. Whoa, now that would be crazy-insane.... next thing you know you have 525HP and a 930 trans and $50K in a car worth $10K. Knowing desire for 600HP is probably only a few track days away (IMG:style_emoticons/default/burnout.gif) |
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| Dr. Roger |
Jun 1 2006, 05:05 PM
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#27
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A bat out of hell. Group: Members Posts: 3,944 Joined: 31-January 05 From: Hercules, California Member No.: 3,533 Region Association: Northern California |
Summit has the SBC 64cc chambered aluminum heads (EDL-60899 ) with 2.02" intake SS valves/retainers and studs installed for only
$500 a piece. no rockers/nuts. thats a great price. http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.a...15&autoview=sku of course you checked out the new "hot rod" magazine and saw the newest SBFord in the cover Mustang. pretty sick IMHO. high winding and small..... <thinking> =-) |
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| 914-8 |
Jun 1 2006, 05:28 PM
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#28
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 802 Joined: 23-January 06 From: Cal Member No.: 5,461 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(byndbad914 @ Jun 1 2006, 04:01 PM) Elaborating = trust me, you'll put in 300HP and that is just crazy-insane. Then you drive it for awhile - you know 300HP isn't that much... I could go to 400HP. Whoa now that would be crazy-insane! Then you drive it for awhile, you know, 400HP isn't that much and that trans was on it's last leg anyway. How about 450HP and conversion to a 915 trans. Whoa, now that would be crazy-insane.... I dunno - 370+ hp and a 915 in a 914 has felt pretty crazy-insane to me for the past 6 months! At least for a street car. When those secondaries crack open at full throttle, things happen pretty quick on the street - more motorcyclelike than carlike. To be honest, I've not used full throttle very much because there just isn't enough room to do it on public roads for more than a couple of seconds. |
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| Jaiden |
Jun 1 2006, 06:19 PM
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#29
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Member Group: Members Posts: 346 Joined: 13-January 05 From: Stroudsburg PA Member No.: 3,443 |
Whoa! You guy have some really high ambitions!!!
I'm just starting my plans for the rear end since I just finished up Phase 1 on the front (refresh the stock) Here's the overall plan Since the motor would need to be gone through anyway why not go one step further. Set up the car for the basic V8 conversion and get it to run strong and reliable. I want to be able to get in and go. After the motor is in running and functional I would move on to the rear suspension freshening and then tighten up a bunch of loose ends. Once it's functional with the drivetrain, guages and rear suspension stable I'll pull it all back apart and do all the final fit and finish. Rebuild the motor to approx 350hp/ 300tq, replace the CV's and see what I can do about keeping the 901 together. I'm going to try and take my time and find some deals on the hard parts (front and rear eng/tranny mounts, engine adapter plate) and then get the rest new. I'm pretty good with Thermodynamics (aced it in College) so I'm going to do the cooling system my self beyond the belt driven waterpump. So wish me luck!!! Thanks for the offer of the motor but I'm looking for a short block that will fire up quick so I can deal with the other conversion issues as soon as possible and deal with the motor later. Donations appreciated!! ha!! |
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| fiid |
Jun 1 2006, 06:31 PM
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#30
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Turbo Megasquirted Subaru Member Group: Members Posts: 2,827 Joined: 7-April 03 From: San Francisco, CA Member No.: 530 Region Association: Northern California |
How about a lexus or toyota V8? I would imagine they would be all aluminum, and perhaps more reliable and efficient in the long haul.
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| byndbad914 |
Jun 1 2006, 06:39 PM
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#31
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shoehorn and some butter - it fits Group: Members Posts: 1,547 Joined: 23-January 06 From: Broomfield, CO Member No.: 5,463 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Jaiden @ Jun 1 2006, 05:19 PM) Rebuild the motor to approx 350hp/ 300tq, replace the CV's and see what I can do about keeping the 901 together. That is going to be small cubes to get a range like that. A rebuilt 350 with hyd cam will go 300HP/350lb-ft, not the other way around. Sounds like a 283 or 302 is a perfect starting place for you! Could take a 3" stroke crank, later model Gen1 hyd roller block and have 306 cubes (assuming 4.030" bore), a nice hyd roller cam, the AFR heads and have something in the 350HP/300-320 torque range that would last forever, fire up every time, on and on. I admit it is hard to stretch 525HP out on the street - I can roll down El Segundo Blvd in 1st gear at 40mph without the car even breathing hard - but it sho' is fun getting to 40mph (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) Mine is too obnoxious for the street at this point and was really only a motorcycle cop away from a noise/modified exhaust ticket, if not more. I mostly track mine admittedly. But I remember test driving my Lightning and thinking "holy crap, a truck that accelerates this fast!" and now I find myself thinking if I cut a hole in the floorboard, maybe I could Flintstone a little more acceleration. Then I get in my fiancee's Focus and damn near get out and push it to get on the freeway, which is a nice reminder that 450 lb-ft is enough for the truck. But I don't "notice" the power like I did when I first bought it - and that is what I meant. I want more... and then more... |
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| Hybrid_Teener |
Jun 1 2006, 06:50 PM
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#32
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Member Group: Members Posts: 98 Joined: 20-December 05 From: San Jose, CA/Saskatoon, SK Member No.: 5,301 |
I wouldn't half-ass it in the engine department.. you'll want more, and it'll cost a heckuva lot more down the line, because you'll have to redo everything. IMHO I'd do it right and go at LEAST LT1 if not LS1.
...and LT1s aren't that expensive anymore... |
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| Jaiden |
Jun 1 2006, 06:51 PM
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#33
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Member Group: Members Posts: 346 Joined: 13-January 05 From: Stroudsburg PA Member No.: 3,443 |
QUOTE(byndbad914 @ Jun 1 2006, 04:39 PM) I want more... and then more... Get a 12 step program you addict!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drunk.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif) |
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| Elliot_Cannon |
Jun 1 2006, 07:19 PM
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#34
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Senior Member Group: Retired Members Posts: 1,922 Joined: 26-March 03 From: Orange County Ca Member No.: 480 Region Association: None |
You need to get in touch with Skline. He's been working on a smc conversion now for years and years and years...
Cheers, Elliot |
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| byndbad914 |
Jun 1 2006, 07:20 PM
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#35
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shoehorn and some butter - it fits Group: Members Posts: 1,547 Joined: 23-January 06 From: Broomfield, CO Member No.: 5,463 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Jaiden @ Jun 1 2006, 05:51 PM) QUOTE(byndbad914 @ Jun 1 2006, 04:39 PM) I want more... and then more... Get a 12 step program you addict!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drunk.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif) not that I have ever tried heroin, but I suspect even that would be easier to kick than an addiction to acceleration (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chairfall.gif) I went to Disneyland a couple weeks ago (had free passes - gotta use 'em!) and ended up riding Space Mountain 3 times because it was the only fast ride - and waited to be in the front seat every time. I can't even enjoy Disneyland anymore (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) |
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| Andyrew |
Jun 1 2006, 08:18 PM
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#36
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Spooling.... Please wait Group: Members Posts: 13,376 Joined: 20-January 03 From: Riverbank, Ca Member No.: 172 Region Association: Northern California
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IMHO a 302 would be the optimum engine...
but a 327 would be nice too... The 302 will give you more top end hp, and more revs... A high winding high hp 914 is ALWAYS fun.... Trust me.. You dont need any more tq than a 302 will make... |
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| elocke |
Jun 1 2006, 08:46 PM
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#37
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Member Group: Members Posts: 178 Joined: 9-February 03 From: Georgetown, MA Member No.: 272 |
Such a question! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)
Hard to answer, but for no major $ or engineering/fab and flexibility to expand later, if I could do it over again, I would have used a 4" bore block instead of my 283. Cost the same to rebuild, but has much more availability of pistons and heads (w/2.02" intake). To up my C/R (w/o decking the block) and valve size I had to buy 55cc steel heads (which are 601 w/1.84" int. and nice, but prone to cracking). It was cheaper than rebuilding my "power pack" heads, which had 1.74" valves. Not that I could afford aluminum at the time, but try looking in Summit or Jegs for aluminum heads w/1.84 or 1.94" valves (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) Or domed 3.875" pistons (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif). Some run big valves in the small bores (301's) but that's a different arguement. Either way, you're gonna want more power. I want more low-end torque. Then I'm taking chances with the 901. 283@300ft-lbs or 350@350ft-lbs? At this point, I'd use the 350. I have no experience with the LT or LS series, so please pardon my ignorance, but the early sbc w/renegade kit sure was simple. Ed Attached image(s) 
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| riverman |
Jun 1 2006, 09:15 PM
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#38
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Learn As I Go Group: Members Posts: 449 Joined: 18-January 05 From: Kitchener, ON Member No.: 3,466 |
I've just basically gone through what you are doing now. After asking a bunch of questions and doing a lot of research, I settled on what Bruce (GWN7) mentioned - a 327 turned into a 302. All the SBC's fit about the same, so it was more a choice of what SBC would be the best choice for me. I went with a quick reving, low torque motor to better match the characteristics of the tranny. To counteract the dizzy fitment problem, I'm looking into various electronic ignitions (as well as EFI), but I haven't settled on anything yet.
I went with the SBC because of all the experience and resources associated with doing Chevy conversions (plus I already owned some the conversion parts), but if I was starting from scratch I would definitely look harder at some the other choices - Suby, Ford, etc. |
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| skline |
Jun 1 2006, 10:35 PM
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#39
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Born to Drive Group: Members Posts: 7,910 Joined: 26-December 02 From: Costa Mesa, CA Member No.: 17 Region Association: Southern California |
Ok, I will throw my two cents in here for what it is worth. I strongly suggest the 327 as it is probably the best most reliable engine for the 914. It's a short stroke with a 4" bore that will do exactly what you want it to do. Parts are a dime a dozen and available anywhere. Easily will put out 350HP with minor mods and keep the torque in the upper end where it wont kill your trans.
Joe Buckle is building one for his V8 car. I have a 283 bored 30 over with a RSHII cam installed. It revs very quick and seems to be very powerful when I drive it. Read that as the car flat gets it when you push on the pedal. Isnt that what we all want? |
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| Jaiden |
Jun 2 2006, 06:24 AM
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#40
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Member Group: Members Posts: 346 Joined: 13-January 05 From: Stroudsburg PA Member No.: 3,443 |
Ok then. I think I will focus on trying to locate a 4" bore block, Make it a rev'r and slap it in.
Anyone know a good place on the east coast to find a decent short block? In my area the junk yards are not the best. Although Harry's you pull it might be a place to get a cheap tear out but probably not in the older vintage. Thanks for all the input guys! Oh and I think that Heroin probably is less addictive then acceleration. |
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