NLA Parts, What IS no longer available Options

[TJB/914]

Rich,

Don't be overly sensitive to these posts. No elitest attitude was intended. I was just supporting the hard working 914 people trying to furnish repo parts. The truth is they must get a return on their time. This 80% crowd just dosn't want to support fair pricing. There will always be 914er's like yourself needing help and willing to buy quality. Untill things change It makes no sense to lose time & effort in a bad market. Even though this is a hobby it's also a business and vendors need to make money.

Tom

[Pat Garvey]

A list of non oem substitute parts would be great.. especailly for those grommets and nla trim pieces, etc. I'm real curious how much some of these things can be produced for. For example, a throttle body gasket.. I found a few places online that make custom gaskets. I'll see whats involved next week.

I'd bet that if it could be done cost effectively, there would be a decent market for these gaskets, as well as the elusive white or black rocker/sill rivets. Can't wait to hear what you find out.

And, to the comments of Rich & Tom. I agree with both of you (how's that for chickensh_t). But, if we were an elitist group, would we be driving 914's? Hell, the first 2 years I had my 914 I couldn't get a 356 or 911 to flash lights back at me. Then I whipped 'em soundly in a concours & got some respect. Unless you're driving a real 916 you can't be an elitist with a 914.

Now you 2 shake hands & forget it.

[JeffBowlsby]

My 914 parts-making experience has another perspective.

For reasons I dont understand, most of the 914 owners on this board seem to be more interested in "How can I make my 914 better, faster, cooler, whatever?"...than enjoy the car the way the factory made it. To me there is nothing wrong with either viewpoint, each is different and there is an element of both tugging inside of me. Anyone who knows me knows that my main interest is in enjoying the beauty of the factory original 914.

For other reasons I dont fully understand, I saw the need for and developed the replacement 914 wiring harness products that I have been making now for about 6-7 years. Many 914 owners on this board are my customers, yet surprisingly, most are not. I do not know where they hear of my harnesses, but probably 75% of my customers are not participants in this place, that I know of. Each customer is important to me and I do what I can to meet the needs of each one.

Most of you know I build the 914/4 engine bay harnesses in stock configuration - Fuel injection, Ignition and Alternator. I also repair these same harnesses where that makes more sense. Recently I have finished the development of the 914 wiper delay harnesses and am now finalizing the development of a universal aftermarket 914 fuel injection (PEFI) harnesses. These are 914 products developed just for the 914/4. The market for these is small, but consistent. Meets my needs perfectly.

My primary intention for the harnesses, and its been successful, was to help keep these great cars on the road, with a high quality product at a reasonable cost. I tried to pick a unique product to invest my time and energy into. The engine bay wiring harnesses take alot of abuse and are not available new from any other source, and so there has always a good demand for them. I build harnesses virtually every weekend, either for customers or for inventory. I am not making huge profit on them, but at the same time I do not spend every spare moment building harnesses, I have a demanding regular job. I could expand the business and make a living at it though if I wanted to, but I do not.

So I have a product most 914 owners need or want, no one else provides and I feel like I am providing something essential to the 914 community. I am happy. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Look what great thngs James and Heidi have done for carpeting and other upgrade items. I would focus on the things that are not available elsewhere. Other NLA 914 product businesses that could be successful, that I would persue if I had the time include:

Refinishing stock Targa tops
Building tinted plex Targa tops
Molding US tailight lenses, rubber grommets
Making GOOD weatherstripping where OEM is not available
Fabricating MPS diaphragms/rebuilding MPS
Fabricating heat exchangers
Offering refinished products on exchange - Interior bits-painted parts, engine tin, relay boards etc
Reproduction labels

[Pat Garvey]

My 914 parts-making experience has another perspective.

For reasons I dont understand, most of the 914 owners on this board seem to be more interested in "How can I make my 914 better, faster, cooler, whatever?"...than enjoy the car the way the factory made it. To me there is nothing wrong with either viewpoint, each is different and there is an element of both tugging inside of me. Anyone who knows me knows that my main interest is in enjoying the beauty of the factory original 914.

For other reasons I dont fully understand, I saw the need for and developed the replacement 914 wiring harness products that I have been making now for about 6-7 years. Many 914 owners on this board are my customers, yet surprisingly, most are not. I do not know where they hear of my harnesses, but probably 75% of my customers are not participants in this place, that I know of. Each customer is important to me and I do what I can to meet the needs of each one.

Most of you know I build the 914/4 engine bay harnesses in stock configuration - Fuel injection, Ignition and Alternator. I also repair these same harnesses where that makes more sense. Recently I have finished the development of the 914 wiper delay harnesses and am now finalizing the development of a universal aftermarket 914 fuel injection (PEFI) harnesses. These are 914 products developed just for the 914/4. The market for these is small, but consistent. Meets my needs perfectly.

My primary intention for the harnesses, and its been successful, was to help keep these great cars on the road, with a high quality product at a reasonable cost. I tried to pick a unique product to invest my time and energy into. The engine bay wiring harnesses take alot of abuse and are not available new from any other source, and so there has always a good demand for them. I build harnesses virtually every weekend, either for customers or for inventory. I am not making huge profit on them, but at the same time I do not spend every spare moment building harnesses, I have a demanding regular job. I could expand the business and make a living at it though if I wanted to, but I do not.

So I have a product most 914 owners need or want, no one else provides and I feel like I am providing something essential to the 914 community. I am happy. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Look what great thngs James and Heidi have done for carpeting and other upgrade items. I would focus on the things that are not available elsewhere. Other NLA 914 product businesses that could be successful, that I would persue if I had the time include:

Refinishing stock Targa tops
Building tinted plex Targa tops
Molding US tailight lenses, rubber grommets
Making GOOD weatherstripping where OEM is not available
Fabricating MPS diaphragms/rebuilding MPS
Fabricating heat exchangers
Offering refinished products on exchange - Interior bits-painted parts, engine tin, relay boards etc
Reproduction labels

Well said, my friend! "If you build it, they will come" When I have my need, I know where you are.
You are a true enthusiast! PG

[GWN7]

I got into making stuff because I'm a CSB ...I needed a top holder for the 70 car and couldn't see myself paying $20 + a Ebay fee + shipping that a guy was selling them for on Ebay. Mind you the first one I did cost me way more than that.

I control my costs buy not having to buy huge inventorys of goods and waiting for them to sell and I enjoy making stuff. The winters are long and there is only so much TV a person can watch.

[914runnow]

Oh man..Has this morphed into a side bar topic..??
Back to the main body of the topic..
Will a list go forward??
AND there needs to be categories of the groups..
So as each item can be 'pigeon holed' correctly..
Also a list of the repro items, and quality ratings??
Will be glad to put in my items..As I run into
or find my 10 year old list...
Also NLA in what category of supplier??
Porsche might be out...
BUT there still could be some at Perf. Prods.
I guess you get my drift...
Trying to track down all sources to see if they are out
isahbuncha phone calls..
Sooooo is a psuedo list the answer to what we have
experienced in a actual order as opposed to hearsay??
itz 2 in the morn>time to zzzzzzzzzzz............ (IMG:style_emoticons/default/yellowsleep[1].gif)

[Pat Garvey]

Oh man..Has this morphed into a side bar topic..??
Back to the main body of the topic..
Will a list go forward??
AND there needs to be categories of the groups..
So as each item can be 'pigeon holed' correctly..
Also a list of the repro items, and quality ratings??
Will be glad to put in my items..As I run into
or find my 10 year old list...
Also NLA in what category of supplier??
Porsche might be out...
BUT there still could be some at Perf. Prods.
I guess you get my drift...
Trying to track down all sources to see if they are out
isahbuncha phone calls..
Sooooo is a psuedo list the answer to what we have
experienced in a actual order as opposed to hearsay??
itz 2 in the morn>time to zzzzzzzzzzz............ (IMG:style_emoticons/default/yellowsleep[1].gif)

Now you have be scared. How many parts can be on a 914? 1000, 2000, 3000? Maybe I should keep my mouth shut, but I'm still willing to(with the help of gurus) TRY to put a list together of NLA parts & alternatives. I have a very goos friend who's getting ready for the resto of his '70 that he's had since about '74 & I wanted him to know what he's in for & where to get the little parts. Won't hurt me either. So, can we get started on this? Who's got the groundwork started? Gimmee.

[JeffBowlsby]

I think it would be more useful to reprint the parts manual pages with visual locations of each part, then cross reference it to NLA or replacement part info. Having a worksheet without pictures will be just a list of nakes and numbers like
"Grommet 021335684 NLA" and not knowing really which part this is, or where it goes.

[TJB/914]

Hi Pat,

Stop don't do it. The NLA list will be obsolete as soon as you start. NLA parts are changing as I type this note. I believe Jeff B's comments and others are enough. I would advise anyone starting a restoration to start with a plan. First budget your money before starting any restoration.

#1
Condition of 914 with a (breakdown) list of body work, motor work and parts required.
Body work/rust restoration will take anywhere from 0 hours to 1000 manhours hours @ $?? per hr.
Show paint job is a minimum of 600 manhours @ $?? per hr. (plus paint materials @ $1,500 dollars, plus)
Motor work is probably easy to figure or budget $5,000 to $8,000 dollars.
Chrome plating @ $2,000 dollars. (front & rear bumpers will be half this figure).
Misc services (anodizing, polishing, nuts, bolts, etc) @ $4.000 dollars.

Parts: This is the big one. I would estimate in todays market of NLA parts the cost of available 914 parts will be $25,000 dollars. Example: I spent $15,000 dollars on everything (10) years ago when prices were reasonable & parts were available. I could part out my 914 & make more money than selling it.

Anyway, back to the NLA parts list. $25K is a huge number, but believe me today you will spend this amount if you restore a 914 to show concours quality. Now if you add labor costs hid the list from the wife.

I welcome comments on my summary of NLA parts costs & 914 available parts. Sometimes it's better to take out a second mortgage and buy Steve's 914 or start collecting parts for your long term future restoration. I suggest you purchase whatever you can find now because 914 parts (good parts) are disappearing. It's not about a list of NLA parts but how much you can afford to spend $$(today). Remember were talking about a concours quality parts, not used junk parts.

Tom
BTW: If Steve or Pat were selling their 914 it would be a bargin at $30K. You can't restore or duplicate 914's for this amount. This is getting to be a very expensive hobby. I know a lot of us will say no 914 is worth that much. I am just thankful I did mine (10) years ago. Flame away (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[TJB/914]

Hey Guys,

I just read my last message & I know I am off the subject matter. What I am trying to tell our newby's, be carefull about purchasing NLA & concourse quality parts. Availabity & today's cost is overwhelming when you get started. The first thing you need to do is purchase a 914 Porsche parts book. Study everything and start wheeling, dealing and looking for the best prices. Go to swap meets, buy things you can trade or sell off for profits. Lots of small items are still available from Porsche.

One man's NLA list is another man's selling list. Someone also said buy a parts car & buy quality. You will save money in the long term.

Tom

[914runnow]

I am sure we ALL have our restoration and upkeep stories..
Just my hardware from Porsche for my nut n bolt resto
job tilted the scales at over 2g..And still climbing.....That
has been since 94... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/alfred.gif)
BUT shall we go ahead with this project or...
Drive our cars now and wait for winter..?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)
And answer this mans questions as his project unfolds.?. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap56.gif)
I agree with 20 to 30g$ in a car>good paint is a hit of 5g if
you take the parts off and reassemble yourself..
BUT BUT BUT::: we should really start a new thread on this as to allow the onlookers to see what is involved..In either maintaining or the insane
accurate reassembly of these cars..
Could 'Shed Some Light' as to the price issue with 914's and the
parts..
So club members could look on and gain some 'perspective'
and put in their thoughts or experience..
WHATCHATHINK???? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[McMark]

Collecting a list of NLA parts comes down to two things. A complete list of 914 part numbers and someone with a lot of phone time to bug dealers and parts pushers. There is a TON of hear-say as to what parts are NLA. A perfect example is in this very thread. Are accelerator pedals NLA? (rhetorical question) IMHO, any list that doesn't come from the horse's mouth is severely flawed.

I'm am 100% dedicated to keeping these cars on the road and doing everything we can to reproduce quality parts that are no longer available as well as custom parts that were never available before. That being said, I don't think an NLA list is the direction in which to put effort. There have been a few threads in the Garage over the last few years asking, "What would you like to see reproduced?" And there is a lot of good info in those threads. That would be a great place to start. It's not the list that's going to kill you. It's getting set up and actually selling the parts without killing yourself. That is one of the directions that I would like to see the 914Club go. Once the club store comes back online we can collect a small profit on the parts sales and use that money to help put on events around the country as well as invest the capital necessary to have production runs of these parts made. It is difficult for most individuals to invest that kind of money, and honestly I'd rather have someone do the leg work and put in the time and not have to worry about the money. There are a lot of dedicated people in our club who can make these things happen with a little financial backing.

WHEW!

Tom, $25k is about right to fully restore a 914 on your own. I'm doing a $40k VW Squareback project. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) There is a lot that goes into these cars and you're spot on with your numbers. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[SirAndy]

you could use the PDF below as a starting point. fresh from porsche classic ...

http://www.914world.com/cantnamethisdownloa...914_KATALOG.pdf

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Andy

[markb]

Andy, any chance that's available in english?

[tod914]

No need, Andy said he'll quit his day job and translate it.

[Pat Garvey]

Hi Pat,

Stop don't do it. The NLA list will be obsolete as soon as you start. NLA parts are changing as I type this note. I believe Jeff B's comments and others are enough. I would advise anyone starting a restoration to start with a plan. First budget your money before starting any restoration.

#1
Condition of 914 with a (breakdown) list of body work, motor work and parts required.
Body work/rust restoration will take anywhere from 0 hours to 1000 manhours hours @ $?? per hr.
Show paint job is a minimum of 600 manhours @ $?? per hr. (plus paint materials @ $1,500 dollars, plus)
Motor work is probably easy to figure or budget $5,000 to $8,000 dollars.
Chrome plating @ $2,000 dollars. (front & rear bumpers will be half this figure).
Misc services (anodizing, polishing, nuts, bolts, etc) @ $4.000 dollars.

Parts: This is the big one. I would estimate in todays market of NLA parts the cost of available 914 parts will be $25,000 dollars. Example: I spent $15,000 dollars on everything (10) years ago when prices were reasonable & parts were available. I could part out my 914 & make more money than selling it.

Anyway, back to the NLA parts list. $25K is a huge number, but believe me today you will spend this amount if you restore a 914 to show concours quality. Now if you add labor costs hid the list from the wife.

I welcome comments on my summary of NLA parts costs & 914 available parts. Sometimes it's better to take out a second mortgage and buy Steve's 914 or start collecting parts for your long term future restoration. I suggest you purchase whatever you can find now because 914 parts (good parts) are disappearing. It's not about a list of NLA parts but how much you can afford to spend $$(today). Remember were talking about a concours quality parts, not used junk parts.

Tom
BTW: If Steve or Pat were selling their 914 it would be a bargin at $30K. You can't restore or duplicate 914's for this amount. This is getting to be a very expensive hobby. I know a lot of us will say no 914 is worth that much. I am just thankful I did mine (10) years ago. Flame away (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Tom,

Thank you for the kind comment. $30k sounds pretty radical to me! Two major problems with selling my 914 - (1) After nearly 34 years of enthusiasm with this car it would truly be like selling a family member! Only way anyone's ever going to get this car away from me is when I croak & then you'll have to deal w/my wife, who's always been just as enthused. (2) What would I do with 30k? Start all over again with another 14. Yeah, it could go a long way towards that bone-stock 6 I want, but not at the cost of giving up "Fritz" (yeah, I kno it's corny, but my wife named it that the day we brought it home in August 1972).
Nope, I think this one's a keeper.

After reading all the comments about a NLA parts list, I ahve to agree with you guys - it's impossible to maintain. If you want to know if something is available, call a reputable parts house or, better yet, ask this group.
Pat G

[JackB]

My modest addition to the NLA list: 914/6 muffler. (If I'm wrong, please let me know where I can find one!)

Jack

[TJB/914]

Hello Jack & welcome aboard!!

Are you the Jack from up state NY ??? The Jack with the 914-4 & 914-6 & a friend of Gary's??? Anyway happy to have you posting.

Tom

[JackB]

Hi, Tom. Thanks for the warm welcome. I'm in south Florida. I've had my /6 for about 10 years now. Tangerine. All original except repaint, ss headers, S front calipers and 2.7. Oh, yeah, NOS Euro front driving lights in place of the US fogs. I only do modifications that are not permanent. Other than that....original.

Jack

[Pat Garvey]

Hi, Tom. Thanks for the warm welcome. I'm in south Florida. I've had my /6 for about 10 years now. Tangerine. All original except repaint, ss headers, S front calipers and 2.7. Oh, yeah, NOS Euro front driving lights in place of the US fogs. I only do modifications that are not permanent. Other than that....original.

Jack

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)

Jack - welcome!!!! Smart guy too! Make you're personal changes so they aren't reversable (sp). Oooh, right motor & rakes (strictly from my perspectve). Definitle a good color! Could we see a photo or two?

Strictly from a "purists" viewpoint, could you also post them to www.914purists.com. Just in case, you know.