SCCA EP/FP or open top guys.... Question, How do you fit!? Options

[groot]

You can post to the prod car forum and get a reasonable discussion, but posting to the SCCA forum is usually a waste of time.

The side protection rule has been there for a number of years and it's weird because an IT legal cage with crossed door bars is not legal for production, unless you add the upper bar. I built my cage in 2004 and that wording was in the GCR at that time.

Regarding the imaginary line... I can see your point.... and it's valid, for sure. I think the point of that line is that if your car flips and your front end gets crushed your helmet will not be supporting the car. This may be a strained interpretation, but I think they want your head within either a line between the hoops or a line between the main hoop and cowl. Having said that, I would make sure your helmet is within that imaginary line because the picture shows it and I've seen people argue with tech inspectors about that before.

No need to get the steering wheel within that line, but you might want to lower it once you find your happy place.....

[kart54]

Hi Terrance,
I agree with Groot (he's usually right regarding SCCA) Your door bars are not legal as they sit. I had mine cut out and redone. I am running a three bar NASCAR style set up that goes out to the outer door cover. Much easier to get in and out of the car as well.
You might want to contact SCCA in Topeka. I've found them to be very helpful actually. They get bashed alot on the Prod. board but I've found them to respond quickly and accurately. If you go to the SCCA website there are email addresses for the individuals responsible for the division you run in.
You might also want to look at the blue number 5 in Kevin's pictures. There is alot of discussion going on about requiring that roll bar set up in open top cars in the very near future. (maybe as early as 2007 or 2008). Certainly, if I was building my car now I would consider that set up. I elected to leave my front windshiled in the car for that very reason. I occasionally run without the top and rear window but that is as close as I get to a car like your building.
Because of the gravel pits in the turns at a number of tracks there have been drivers trapped when the car went upside down and came to rest on the nose and the main hoop both of which have dug into the gravel. as a result they have raised the height requirements. Personally, I always want to be able to get out of the car as quickly as possible if I put it upside down. I've done it twice in other cars and it's never any fun. Helluva ride, but not fun.
One other minor issue for you ( I know, not minor if you have to relocate a bar) Hard to tell from your picture, but if your going to use the bar behind your seat for your harnesses and your going to wear a HANS it appears that bar may be to high. HANS recommends (Not SCCA) that the bar in that situation be 1 3/4 inches to 2 inches below your shoulder height.
Randy
Car 54 Here I Am; G production SCCA porsche 914.
Currently leading Cal Club G prod points and lap record holder at Buttonwillow Raceway Park for G production

[groot]

Hey, Randy. You're right about contacting SCCA directly, they have been very helpful, but the SCCA discussion board seems to be a waste of time.

About Tom Burdge's car (number 5), are you talking about the high front hoop or the scab on the main hoop?

[Terrance]

Thanks for the tips guys. I think I have it all worked out here.

[kart54]

Hi Kevin and Terrance,
I was talking about the high front hoop. There has been talk going on since I began with my car about having all production or non-open wheel cars go to the high front hoop. The issue of the gravel pits and other safety issues has come up from time to time.
As I understand it, nothing is carved in stone at this point but it is strongly under consdieration for implementaion in a year or two. There has been a great deal of grousing about it over on the production board with guys threatening to sell their cars and never race again etc., etc.
I elected to leave my windshield in place and just run without the targa top from time to time so it doesn't affect me but I can see where it would affect guys like you, Eric Madsen, Bob Kirby's old car and others. I really like the look of your car but can also see the reasoning behind the other argument. Either way, I'm not a player, just a spectator in this one. If I was building a new car now I would certainly discuss it with SCCA. I'd hate to have to modify the cage in the near future after just finishing the car.
Randy
Car 54 Here I Am
G production Porsche 914

[groot]

I've been following the debate, but I'm pretty sure the debate has been focused on the main hoop and whether it extends all the way across or only 50% or on some cars, less than 50% the way across. Us open 914 guys have no reason to go less than all the way across due to the targa bar.

[Thorshammer]

The new rules really don't affect the 914, because no one will build the 1/2 width cage. Terrence in seeing your photos, you will need to add a horizontal bar to the fore and aft sections of your door roll cage area. It looks pretty easy to do, just two tubes.

Frankly, my cage main hoop is a touch low. I had some major problems at the Runoffs, for two reasons, first, I was craning my head forward to see over the hood and pick up some reference points in my first practice session, got the black flag. Then, we lowered the seat, cut the windscreen and I was able to make it under the limbo stick.

Please contact me if you need any help in building your car. I am sure the same offer is open from Kevin. Are you building a 6 or a four?

Erik

[DaveE]

Hi Kevin and Terrance,
I was talking about the high front hoop. There has been talk going on since I began with my car about having all production or non-open wheel cars go to the high front hoop. The issue of the gravel pits and other safety issues has come up from time to time.
As I understand it, nothing is carved in stone at this point but it is strongly under consdieration for implementaion in a year or two. There has been a great deal of grousing about it over on the production board with guys threatening to sell their cars and never race again etc., etc.
I elected to leave my windshield in place and just run without the targa top from time to time so it doesn't affect me but I can see where it would affect guys like you, Eric Madsen, Bob Kirby's old car and others. I really like the look of your car but can also see the reasoning behind the other argument. Either way, I'm not a player, just a spectator in this one. If I was building a new car now I would certainly discuss it with SCCA. I'd hate to have to modify the cage in the near future after just finishing the car.
Randy
Car 54 Here I Am
G production Porsche 914

I don't see how they could fairly require open Prod cars to run a full, high cage unless they also consider the SRF cars. What's unsafe for one is unsafe for the other, yes?

[Terrance]

Erik,

Thanks for the tip! I know about those lame horizontals for the doors. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) , so I will get those done when the time comes around. I check my height all the time, so I'm pretty sure I'm good to go.

I'm building a -6, so it should be fun. I call it EP'ish, because it's probably not legal. I will probably run it mainly with my local Porsche racing group here. I'll stick to spec miata with SCCA.

[ChrisFoley]

Here are a couple of pics of my latest project. The main hoop is about as low as I would want to go. I think Erik Madsen's is even lower than mine. I carefully positioned the seat so I am below the line across the hoops with my helmet on. I hope I can see ahead of me ok. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)
The seat is a Kirkey upright that I have layed back quite a bit. Unfortunately it doesn't give good head support so I may modify the headrest at the same time as I am adding shoulder supports.

[ChrisFoley]

front view

[ChrisFoley]

and

[groot]

Hey, Chris. Lookin' good!!!

Welcome to the open 914 club. My visibility is not very good, but you get used to it after a few races. Now, I don't even think about it. But, if I let someone drive my car they get a little freaked out about it.