Dealer "badge", Keep or no? Options

[BigDBass]

My '74 has a roughly 1" x 4" dealership badge attached on the back, on the far left side of the panel with the "914 2.0" logos. I sorta like it as it's part of the car's history, but at the same time I'd like the cleaner appearance without it. Does it make a difference either way as far as originality goes?

[GWN7]

Sticker? or one they bolted thru the metal? If it's the latter easier to leave it unless your getting the car painted.

[markb]

Sticker? or one they bolted thru the metal? If it's the latter easier to leave it unless your getting the car painted.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[BigDBass]

There're no bolts, so it must be a stick-on. I wonder what the adhesive might have done to the paint over the last 33 years.

[GWN7]

If there is any fading of the paint it will show if you remove the badge.

[Barretta]

I'm not sure how the Porsche community views it, but the dealer badge should most definitly be left on according to the Domestic collectors. If it is original it is as important as the original papers. Without doubt leave the dealer sticker on.

[Pat Garvey]

I'm not sure how the Porsche community views it, but the dealer badge should most definitly be left on according to the Domestic collectors. If it is original it is as important as the original papers. Without doubt leave the dealer sticker on.

Have to disagree with you here. For those of us who bought our 914's new, I doubt that many had a dealer applied identifier. If so, it was probably metal, since that was the norm of the day. The majority of dealers may be slapped on a license plate frame, but that would have been it (for the majority), and removed after a couple of years. Stick-on decals of the period were usually relegated to the used car lots.

If one of the premier dealer still existing today had done so (Holbert, Brumos, Prestige) it might still be a way of showing originality, but I doubt it would garner any additional points in concours judging. But, most of the dealers of the 914 era have changed hands several times, or ceased to exist, so it means nothing. Definitely, not equal to the worth of a C of A from Porsche.

In my years of competing, I can honestly say that I've never seen a dealer stamp/sticker on a competitive concours Porsche.

[914runnow]

My '74 has a roughly 1" x 4" dealership badge attached on the back, on the far left side of the panel with the "914 2.0" logos. I sorta like it as it's part of the car's history, but at the same time I'd like the cleaner appearance without it. Does it make a difference either way as far as originality goes?

Damn...Everyone is right in their own sweet way.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon_bump.gif)
What area of the country OR dealership did it come from??
If it is a sticky..After 30 plus years it would be toast..
Yepperz used car lot..
Try a heat gun and peel it!!
But I do remember even in the early 70's the metal badges still going on cars..
But As Pat said they seem to sway to the frame more so as the years went on..
Judging..Hmmmmm.....IF you were in preservation class and could show that
was the dealer.....Metal or not..I would not ding you...might even throw
a bonus point your way...
Locally that is!!!...For that fact I even like those 'oil change stickers'
they used to slap on our doors..Itz just the carz history..
BUT Nationally..As the dealer Rec'd it.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[Pat Garvey]

BUT Nationally..As the dealer Rec'd it....

You hit it right there! "As the dealer Rec'd it..."

Sorry, be it Preservation/Restoration/etc., I'm hard nosed about it. Compete to win, regardless of the level (that's just me). Nothing better than wiping the snear from a Ferrari guy when he gets beaten by a 914, but the playing field is different when you compete multi-marque - usually it's easier than PCA.

The easy thing to do is keep it totally original. That way you can compete at every level, with no excuses.

[sixerdon]

BUT Nationally..As the dealer Rec'd it....

You hit it right there! "As the dealer Rec'd it..."

Sorry, be it Preservation/Restoration/etc., I'm hard nosed about it. Compete to win, regardless of the level (that's just me). Nothing better than wiping the snear from a Ferrari guy when he gets beaten by a 914, but the playing field is different when you compete multi-marque - usually it's easier than PCA.

The easy thing to do is keep it totally original. That way you can compete at every level, with no excuses.

Sorry guys, I don't agree with the "as the dealer received it". More like "as the dealer delivered it" Otherwise your standing is "slam anyone with a radio and whip them with an antenna from the right fender". Think about all the dealer accessories. Having a dealer badge, when new, would have made me angry at the time, but the dealer installed it non the less.

Don

[914runnow]

BUT Nationally..As the dealer Rec'd it....

You hit it right there! "As the dealer Rec'd it..."

Sorry, be it Preservation/Restoration/etc., I'm hard nosed about it. Compete to win, regardless of the level (that's just me). Nothing better than wiping the snear from a Ferrari guy when he gets beaten by a 914, but the playing field is different when you compete multi-marque - usually it's easier than PCA.

The easy thing to do is keep it totally original. That way you can compete at every level, with no excuses.

Sorry guys, I don't agree with the "as the dealer received it". More like "as the dealer delivered it" Otherwise your standing is "slam anyone with a radio and whip them with an antenna from the right fender". Think about all the dealer accessories. Having a dealer badge, when new, would have made me angry at the time, but the dealer installed it non the less.

Don

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) ..See..I wannah please everyone...
It winds up to the event you are being judged at........
And yes what the Dealer also put in it...
I have never had a local judge ding me for my radio or VPC A/C..
I would cry if that were the case!!!!
Or gievdahjudgedis.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/KMA.gif)

[Scott S]

I am not sure how the Porsche group works at the national level. Our local "concour" is nothing remotely close (the Martini car has won it three times - go figure...). I do know the rule of thumb for the british stuff however. Accessories are permittable if they are period and installation in no way alters the car - no drilling or adhesives - and can be removed without any evidence of being installed.

I dont think the radio is hard to justify as original as there were only a few that were available. I have also seen the instructions for drilling the antenna hole - I think it was posted on either rennlist or Pelican

A/C, while dealer installed, was still the factory approved unit.


Pat, did Porsche specify the type of undercoating to be used by the dealer?

I remember very clearly all the garbage that our local dealer in Newport offered for their cars - everything from prism tape stickers to the stuff offered by those third party suppliers (window tint/pin striping and vinyl door rub strips). Just because a dealer offered it, didn't make it original. I even think the 2.0 fuchs with the black paddles should be considered wrong.

What are your thoughts on the Addco stuff?

I had never seen a dealer plaque or sticker until we moved to Colorado. Prior to that, I had only seen the license plate frames.

[Pat Garvey]

BUT Nationally..As the dealer Rec'd it....

You hit it right there! "As the dealer Rec'd it..."

Sorry, be it Preservation/Restoration/etc., I'm hard nosed about it. Compete to win, regardless of the level (that's just me). Nothing better than wiping the snear from a Ferrari guy when he gets beaten by a 914, but the playing field is different when you compete multi-marque - usually it's easier than PCA.

The easy thing to do is keep it totally original. That way you can compete at every level, with no excuses.

Sorry guys, I don't agree with the "as the dealer received it". More like "as the dealer delivered it" Otherwise your standing is "slam anyone with a radio and whip them with an antenna from the right fender". Think about all the dealer accessories. Having a dealer badge, when new, would have made me angry at the time, but the dealer installed it non the less.

Don

Don,
Guess I need to clarify myself. "As delivered" means no unapproved aftermarket accessories. Radio, regardless of brand, should be accepted if it's period because the Factory provided a removable panel for it, as well as through-the-bulkhead holes for the antenna on the drivers' side. Antenna on the right fender = gig. Clarion radio = OK - the hole was for "a" radio. All the better if it's a Blau.

Addco bumper bars = gig (holes drilled to fit). Non-factory luggage rack (I can't recall if the factory offered one, though maybe) = gig (holes drilled to fit). Cocoa mats = OK, but they would come out of the car for judging anyway.

Though I hate to admit it, some of these things are a little judgemental. Take rustproofing. Factory encouraged it, but didn't provide it. Question would be (my opinion) - was it a proper job, or something added 15 years later to hide faults? (you can generally tell).

Dealer badges....believe me, if me car had come from Stoddard or Brumos new, I'd wear the badge proudly. Not sure abaout Brumos, but Stoddard used liscense frames - no badges, stickers, etc.

Boils down to the individual judge. Regardless of his/her background/training, there will always be a bias of some sort. So long as it's applied consistently, and so long as the judge knows his/her stuff, I don'r think it's a problem.

For example (my tastes), I love the look of a Euro 914 with no side markers & Euro lenses. Unless the owner can prove/convince me it's a Euro delivery car - gigged!

Antenna on the right fender - a gig EVERY time.

[Pat Garvey]

I am not sure how the Porsche group works at the national level. Our local "concour" is nothing remotely close (the Martini car has won it three times - go figure...). I do know the rule of thumb for the british stuff however. Accessories are permittable if they are period and installation in no way alters the car - no drilling or adhesives - and can be removed without any evidence of being installed.

I dont think the radio is hard to justify as original as there were only a few that were available. I have also seen the instructions for drilling the antenna hole - I think it was posted on either rennlist or Pelican

A/C, while dealer installed, was still the factory approved unit.


Pat, did Porsche specify the type of undercoating to be used by the dealer?

I remember very clearly all the garbage that our local dealer in Newport offered for their cars - everything from prism tape stickers to the stuff offered by those third party suppliers (window tint/pin striping and vinyl door rub strips). Just because a dealer offered it, didn't make it original. I even think the 2.0 fuchs with the black paddles should be considered wrong.

What are your thoughts on the Addco stuff?

I had never seen a dealer plaque or sticker until we moved to Colorado. Prior to that, I had only seen the license plate frames.

Scott,
To my knowledge, the factory didn't "officially" approve of any specific rustproofing, though they wre heavily aligned w/3M at the time (Body Shutz). What I DO know is that my dealer told me that Ziebart was "factory approved" & would not violate the warranty. I suspect this was bullsh_t, because why would the factory care - no body rot warranty of significance & Ziebart would not hurt. However, I was in the "rustbelt".

Yes, my 914 was rustproofed before it was a week old. It's saved me a bunch of money throught he years.....but I wouldn't do it if I were restoring it today.

[mrgreenjeans]

<!-- quoteo(post=781049:date=Sep 26 2006, 01:30 PM:name=Barretta) --><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Barretta @ Sep 26 2006, 01:30 PM) </div><div class='quotemain'><!-- quotec -->
I'm not sure how the Porsche community views it, but the dealer badge should most definitly be left on according to the Domestic collectors. If it is original it is as important as the original papers. Without doubt leave the dealer sticker on.
<!-- QuoteEnd --></div><!-- QuoteEEnd -->
Have to disagree with you here. For those of us who bought our 914's new, I doubt that many had a dealer applied identifier. If so, it was probably metal, since that was the norm of the day. The majority of dealers may be slapped on a license plate frame, but that would have been it (for the majority), and removed after a couple of years. Stick-on decals of the period were usually relegated to the used car lots.

If one of the premier dealer still existing today had done so (Holbert, Brumos, Prestige) it might still be a way of showing originality, but I doubt it would garner any additional points in concours judging. But, most of the dealers of the 914 era have changed hands several times, or ceased to exist, so it means nothing. Definitely, not equal to the worth of a C of A from Porsche.

In my years of competing, I can honestly say that I've never seen a dealer stamp/sticker on a competitive concours Porsche.

I haven't either, and I find it a serious detraction to the eye, by messing up the original factory look. Personal opinion only.
Both Porsches, and all of my Audis had NO outside fixture attesting to the dealer it was sold at. Several came with a license frame, which I quickly removed and hung in the garage, but none had the dreaded screwed on plate or sticky applique.
I would do all I could to remove them, if the paint finish didn't suffer a fade problem. And that's hard, when one doesn't know how deep the color loss has been. Judgement call at best.

[Johny Blackstain]

I too find a dealer logo unattractive on any car. So did my Father. When he bought the 74LE from HBL Porsche/Audi on Rt 50 in Fairfax, VA., the dealer had not yet placed the ugly red plastic/vinyl "HBL" badge/sticker on the back. The old man told them to leave it off, so the car never had one to begin with.


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool_shades.gif)

[SGB]

They are typically ugly, but if I had one from Brumos or Stoddard or Polak it would be like a time capsul. Anyway I would hope they had a little more taste and restraint. I would keep one from the original seller- not a re-sell, but the p-car dealer. I personally think the desired state would be "as purchasedfrom the dealer". The only other legitimate alternative is factory delivery. Are you gonna limit the feild to just those cars? Were they even doing that back then? Seems unfair to penalize for an unavoidable blemish for some owners.

[Johny Blackstain]

They are typically ugly, but if I had one from Brumos or Stoddard or Polak it would be like a time capsul. Anyway I would hope they had a little more taste and restraint. I would keep one from the original seller- not a re-sell, but the p-car dealer. I personally think the desired state would be "as purchasedfrom the dealer". The only other legitimate alternative is factory delivery. Are you gonna limit the feild to just those cars? Were they even doing that back then? Seems unfair to penalize for an unavoidable blemish for some owners.

I agree to a point... it would not be fair, yet I still find them very undesirable regardless of who sold it & would be screwed if I left the car "as purchased from the dealer". My Dad also thought the car was "too orange" so he had the dealer paint the bumpers, front & back, & the front LE spoiler gloss black. It looked sharp however I have since corrected my Fathers only mistake regarding the car (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool_shades.gif)

[rwjames]

Check out the 356 Registry some time. Those guys will pay big money ($500 sometimes) for a period correct dealer license surround from Polak, Brumos or other 356 era dealers. Period dealer key fobs are also big money.

It has gotten so profitable that people are making reproductions of the key fobs and surrounds. Reproduction dealer license surrounds? I guess to each his own. The 356 guys are hard core.

In the end, it's your car, but I would leave it on if it was a Porsche dealer unless you got into serious competition and it became an issue. If it was Greasy Bobs Car World, I would take it off myself.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif)