Opinions wanted! deciding on a laptop programmable fuel injection, which one would you choose? Why? Options

[Dr. Roger]

My ride has a 355cid SBC with agressive cam and some head work.
750cfm Edelbrock double pumper.

The engine will get torn down in the next month or so for a few internal mods and checks like a milder mid range cam and bearing check, ...

I know that there's no comparison to injection and think i may be able to fit it into my budget if i sell off some stuff...
Burning Man tickets $440.
Weltmeister front sway $200 (i'm getting used to the ultra stiff ride of the 23mm front tortions so i won't need a front sway)
V8 starter w/adaptor ???
other stuff.

So right now I'm guessing I have about $700 to invest in a programmable setup for a V8.

I've seen the Edelbrock setup on Ebay for about $700 and it comes with all the sensors and a intake plate which will match my 4bbl intake.

There's another which requires drilling my intake for individual injectors and is much more expensive. $2500 +/-. Haltech multi port System.

all of my vechicles that have multi-port fuel injection kick a$$ and i would love to have that on my 914 but I think $$$ is keeping me from getting it.

Am I off base or are there some other options I'm not aware of?

Thank you for all of your opinions. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smiley_notworthy.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/burnout.gif)

[Crazyhippy]

It can be done on the cheap... Racepages.com has some good deals on occasion.

I'm running a Link Standalone on my sooby, and I am very impressed w/ everything so far. Decent instructions, great tuning interface, and capable of doing way more than i need (for now at least).

They make v-8 compatable stuff (link-ecu.com) and it's capable of running turbo motors too (for later (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)).

BJH

[Andyrew]

700? Thats how much I got my holley system for. The edelbrock system only has a few points to adjust.. its like turning knobs.. but its more like pushing buttons...

You want the good stuff? Do the Holly marine or projection 4d (dont do 2d or 4..) Its a really trick setup.. You'll want to have a LM1 unit to tune it with, and a buddy.. Or about 3 hours on the dyno.. (you'll do that with whatever fuel system you go with)

After you do that... You'll think it was a different engine.. TRUST me.

[Andyrew]

Ps.. dont change your cam... You only had about 150 tq before that cam kicked in.. or less. You should be in the 250 range pre cam with that engine... Like I said.. your power valve was off too... Hold off on changing the cam till you try the fuel injection... Trust me.. it'll save you a cv, and a trani...

[lapuwali]

V8 land has a fair number of choices. Remember that you're not just dealing with an ECU. You need a manifold, injectors, fuel rails, plumbing, a high-pressure fuel pump, sensors, a wiring harness, ...

You should be able to find plenty of complete kits, though. $700 sounds low for a complete system, but I don't know the V8 systems all that well. Try AEM, Mallory, Accell, et al. Thumbing through a Summit Racing catalog should give you some idea on pricing. I'd take a SWAG and say a complete, ready to use system is going to run you more like $1200, but I'm also stuck in Porsche land.

[bondo]

Go direct injection if you can. Throttle body injection is basically a tunable carb... fuel just dribbles in. Atomization is your friend.

Have you considered going with an OEM injection system off an engine with similar characteristics as yours? A whole lot of work has gone into those, and you'd be hard pressed to match the reliability and drivability with an aftermarket system. Just pick something that has good aftermarket support so you can chip the ECU if you need to.

I'm using an LT1 out of a 1993 Firebird. I'm using the ECU as well, so once I'm done it will be a simple start and drive situation. The downside of this approach is the wiring nightmare, and in my case having to rig up a VSS. It's nothing impossible though, and it will save you big $$$. My engine with ECU, wiring and sensors cost me approxamately $800 after I sold off the rest of the Firebird.

[lapuwali]

Go direct injection if you can. Throttle body injection is basically a tunable carb... fuel just dribbles in. Atomization is your friend.

Have you considered going with an OEM injection system off an engine with similar characteristics as yours? A whole lot of work has gone into those, and you'd be hard pressed to match the reliability and drivability with an aftermarket system. Just pick something that has good aftermarket support so you can chip the ECU if you need to.

I'm using an LT1 out of a 1993 Firebird. I'm using the ECU as well, so once I'm done it will be a simple start and drive situation. The downside of this approach is the wiring nightmare, and in my case having to rig up a VSS. It's nothing impossible though, and it will save you big $$$. My engine with ECU, wiring and sensors cost me approxamately $800 after I sold off the rest of the Firebird.

Throttle body injection can actually work fairly decently, and there can be plenty of atomization. There can also be a lot of manifold wall wetting and uneven distribution of the mixture, just like with a carb. Port injection is basically going to get you better tunability and driveability at the low end. OEM GM throttle-body systems often used very low system pressure and huge injectors, so it was, indeed, far less than optimal. However, you can use (say) 4 small-ish high pressure injectors in the throttle body to good effect.

Using all of the mechanical bits off a junkyard V8 is the way to go, I agree, to go cheap. Use the newest engine you can find, replace all of the fuel hose with new stuff, and go from there. What buying a kit will get you is a lot less hassle, and a set of instructions.

[ottox914]

Check out the SDS stuff- its SIMPLE, as the name implies. Why pay more $$$ for more stuff that you'll never use or need. Like the laptop. www.SDSEFI.com will get you started. Even if you don't use their stuff, its a great site for general PEFI info. I've got in on my 4 cyl, but have not got engine back in and running. Check out my progress thread from time to time. I expect ignition this weekend...

[Dr. Roger]

V8 land has a fair number of choices. Remember that you're not just dealing with an ECU. You need a manifold, injectors, fuel rails, plumbing, a high-pressure fuel pump, sensors, a wiring harness, ...

You should be able to find plenty of complete kits, though. $700 sounds low for a complete system, but I don't know the V8 systems all that well. Try AEM, Mallory, Accell, et al. Thumbing through a Summit Racing catalog should give you some idea on pricing. I'd take a SWAG and say a complete, ready to use system is going to run you more like $1200, but I'm also stuck in Porsche land.

that's what i'm thinking about right now.

a complete kits is a bit over the top ($$$) for me but to pillage a complete port injected intake with injectors off some vette makes good sense. get the intake, injectors, fuel rail, plumbing, sensors, probably get a new pump....

i'm just not farmiliar with which pre 86 SBC's came with port injection??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

anyone???? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[Hydra]

If you manage to get the harware for EFI from a junkyard for cheap(intake, injectors, fuel rail, plumbing, sensors, etc...), why not go Megasquirt? it's around 300$ if you are good at using a soldering iron and can spare some 4-5 hours soldering everything, and it can even manage ignition if you really want to, it'll work with any sensors and any injectors, plus it has tons of online support especially for a V8 application, the downaside i see is that it won't manage sequential injection for a V8, it'll be batch fire, but the difference is really marginal....

[TimT]

I recommend Haltech!!

oops we sell that system .....cant be pushy here

I have LinkPLus in my personal 911..Link is very good low profile stuff., has a great user interface.

Bill the owner of the shop I sometimes work for decided he likes Haltech better.. hence we are now authorized Haltech sellers/installers..

There are a bunch of EFI systems that you could use.. decide which features you need, and pare down your choices.

[Mueller]

being a Chevy motor, you can just use a tuned port system from an IROC or 'vet...I'm pretty sure there are companies that allow you to tweak the factory ECU.....you need to talk to PRS914-6 (Paul) he has a very, very nice '69(? or '70) Chevy truck with a modern EFI motor (383?) which he tweaked the factory ECU to work with his application.

The Link has a pendant like the SDS as well, but you can also use your laptop if you wish....I kind of liking being able to look at the "whole" picture instead of having to scroll for a parameter line by line.

[Dr. Roger]

cool guys!

i'm glad it's my friday so i can stay up all night studying the different setups and figuring options.

i think mega squirt is ruled out only because it doesnt' have the GUI i prefer.

the link sounds interesting
also the excel, holley, haltech...

also i learned that MSD and another make a epoxy-in injector bung for your own intake. =-) then they offer a position sensor for your carb which then serves the purpose of an air switch. interesting thought for me. probably boring for some of you pro's. =-)

Tim and BJH,
link??? i cant seem to find that website but i'd love to check it out.

[TimT]

The Link, Link

[Hydra]

i'm running Megasquirt on my suby conversion right now, and i can tell you it has one of the best GUIs out there, very starightforward, loads of info, and at the same time very user friendly... plus with the new autotune option, the ECU will tune itself in all situations except WOT or more precisely 75% throttle...

[3liter914-6]

i think mega squirt is ruled out only because it doesnt' have the GUI i prefer.

the link sounds interesting
also the excel, holley, haltech...

You asked for opinions, mine is that you should take a hard look at the Megasquirt. I'm not sure what particular objections you have to the GUI, but I haven't seen many tuning programs arranged too differently from MegaTune. If your objection is to the tables, you can also tune in 3d map mode.

Personally, I think it would be a shame to ignore one of the better solutions out there merely for GUI reasons. Especially since the GUI and tuning is just going to be one small part of the EFI experience in the grand scheme. That's just MHO.

I've heard some bad things about the Holley. No specifics just lots of people having problems getting good tunes out of them. I think the tuning a stock TPI ecu is a good option, but really from a cost standpoint, even if you don't build it yourself MS has the best bang for the buck.

I was at the same point as yourself, starting from scratch on a SBC, looking for an EFI system. I thought of TPI, but really it's a pretty handicapped system. Not bad for early EFI, but a poor choice for a 914 IMO. Ultimately I decided upon modifying an LT1 intake to fit a Gen 1 SBC. It's not terribly difficult, it's a good looking intake, and it certainly has the bang for the buck factor. Used, complete intakes can be had for $100 or less if you're lucky (eBay, thirdgen.org, camaroz28.com are good sources). From there, you can have it modified for Gen 1 fitment for $200 by LT1intakes.com, or perform the machining yourself. So for $3-400 you have a complete intake, with injectors, TB, TPS, fuel rails, etc.

Other options you can google into the wee hours of the morning are the mini-ram and holley stealth ram, or as mentioned you can run TBI. Edelbrock is now offering a carb-style intake with injector pockets cast in, but I think they're only offer the Vic E -style which is pretty dang big for a street 355ci.

Good luck with your decision, I really like how my setup turned out:

(IMG:http://iesforums.org/v8side.jpg)
(IMG:http://iesforums.org/v8front.jpg)

Adam

[Mueller]

Interesting you don't like the GUI of the Megasquirt....I'd have to say a lot of it was "borrowed" in looks and feel from Link, Haltec, MoTec plus a few others.

Of course I have not used Megasquirt for a few years so maybe they drasticly changed things, but I doubt it is too far off from the 1st couple of versions.

Not sure what kind of interface you are looking for, but if Windoze, they will be pretty much all the same.

[bondo]

Keep in mind that if you use an LT1 intake, you'll have to do extensive modifications to your 914. You CAN turn it around so it faces to the rear, but you'll still need to do some cutting. (turning it around requires further modifications to the intake)

[3liter914-6]

Keep in mind that if you use an LT1 intake, you'll have to do extensive modifications to your 914. You CAN turn it around so it faces to the rear, but you'll still need to do some cutting. (turning it around requires further modifications to the intake)

Good point, and actually turning it around would be very difficult on a Gen 1 block, unless you decide to run some form of crankfire, as otherwise the dizzy will go right through the plenum. If you are running crankfire, it's a pretty trivial addition to the mods already being performed to the intake, a little welding to cover the lifter valley.


Sounds like a TBI or converted carb manifold are the better choices though. The MS2 coders are playing around with some cool stuff, like X-tau which should improve the TBI experience.