 GGR AX #8 at Candlestick, Saturday Sept. 30th |
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| DanT |
 Sep 28 2006, 06:09 PM
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#21
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Going back to the Dark Side!  Group: Members Posts: 4,300 Joined: 4-October 04 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 2,880 Region Association: None  |
QUOTE(Randal @ Sep 27 2006, 10:34 PM)  QUOTE(Dan (Almaden Valley) @ Sep 27 2006, 04:57 PM) Grant and others. The course is now posted on the GGR website. www.pca-ggr.org Road race. I think your assessment may be very close Randal (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) Are you going to show with the 944? |
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| Randal |
Sep 28 2006, 07:58 PM
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#22
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,446 Joined: 29-May 03 From: Los Altos, CA Member No.: 750 |
QUOTE(Dan (Almaden Valley) @ Sep 28 2006, 05:09 PM) QUOTE(Randal @ Sep 27 2006, 10:34 PM) QUOTE(Dan (Almaden Valley) @ Sep 27 2006, 04:57 PM) Grant and others. The course is now posted on the GGR website. www.pca-ggr.org Road race. I think your assessment may be very close Randal (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) Are you going to show with the 944? The 944 timing is up to my son, i.e., wanting this to be a joint thing, not just old Dad taking off and racing the car. Although looking at that course my judgment is waning. |
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| grantsfo |
Sep 28 2006, 08:59 PM
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#23
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Arrrrhhhh! Group: Members Posts: 4,327 Joined: 16-March 03 Member No.: 433 Region Association: None |
Can I take 3 instructors to help me out? LOL! I'm going to see if I can sneak away in the Mazda Speed 6. Was supposed to have after bitrthday brunch with my mother in law, but I'm taking her out on her birthday the night before.
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| DanT |
Sep 28 2006, 09:06 PM
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#24
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Going back to the Dark Side! Group: Members Posts: 4,300 Joined: 4-October 04 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 2,880 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(grantsfo @ Sep 28 2006, 07:59 PM) Can I take 3 instructors to help me out? LOL! I'm going to see if I can sneak away in the Mazda Speed 6. Was supposed to have after bitrthday brunch with my mother in law, but I'm taking her out on her birthday the night before. 4 in a sedan has been done before (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) |
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| Chris Hamilton |
Sep 29 2006, 09:19 PM
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#25
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 611 Joined: 7-March 06 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 5,687 |
We'll be there tomorrow.
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| DanT |
Sep 29 2006, 09:46 PM
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#26
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Going back to the Dark Side! Group: Members Posts: 4,300 Joined: 4-October 04 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 2,880 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Chris Hamilton @ Sep 29 2006, 08:19 PM) We'll be there tomorrow. I would have been surprised if you weren't there (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I'll be there bright (foggy) well at least early....for set up. |
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| ConeDodger |
Sep 30 2006, 01:19 AM
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#27
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Apex killer! Group: Members Posts: 23,575 Joined: 31-December 04 From: Tahoe Area Member No.: 3,380 Region Association: Northern California 
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QUOTE(Dan (Almaden Valley) @ Sep 29 2006, 08:46 PM) QUOTE(Chris Hamilton @ Sep 29 2006, 08:19 PM) We'll be there tomorrow. I would have been surprised if you weren't there (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I'll be there bright (foggy) well at least early....for set up. Sorry Dan, I got an offer to have my silver car used for a paintless dent repair demo... It only has two small dents and they are going to go bye bye... |
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| DanT |
Sep 30 2006, 09:54 PM
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#28
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Going back to the Dark Side! Group: Members Posts: 4,300 Joined: 4-October 04 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 2,880 Region Association: None |
was a good day at the Stick...
course was much more busy and tight than it appeared on the map....per usual (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Only 3 914s out of about 80+ cars. Myself, AndrewB in the Smurfmobile and BillD in his '73 914. Andrew did a 49 and change I was at a 55.8 and left after 6 total runs....my competition in AX11 a 964 (running 9.5 and 8 inch rims, a chip and aftermarket exhaust), and a 944S2 were not up to my times. Actually I had them covered by my 3rd run in the AM but stuck around to see how they did in their PM runs. Had both covered by about 2 or more seconds. And no, I have no idea how a basically stock 914 2.0L ends up in the same class as a very stout 964. But then again I am not the one on the short end of the results stick (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) If I were him I would be checking my car to see if there was anything to protest...there isn't. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/burnout.gif) |
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| Trekkor |
Sep 30 2006, 10:59 PM
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#29
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I do things... Group: Members Posts: 7,809 Joined: 2-December 03 From: Napa, Ca Member No.: 1,413 Region Association: Northern California |
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| grantsfo |
Sep 30 2006, 11:16 PM
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#30
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Arrrrhhhh! Group: Members Posts: 4,327 Joined: 16-March 03 Member No.: 433 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Dan (Almaden Valley) @ Sep 30 2006, 08:54 PM) was a good day at the Stick... course was much more busy and tight than it appeared on the map....per usual (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Only 3 914s out of about 80+ cars. Myself, AndrewB in the Smurfmobile and BillD in his '73 914. Andrew did a 49 and change I was at a 55.8 and left after 6 total runs....my competition in AX11 a 964 (running 9.5 and 8 inch rims, a chip and aftermarket exhaust), and a 944S2 were not up to my times. Actually I had them covered by my 3rd run in the AM but stuck around to see how they did in their PM runs. Had both covered by about 2 or more seconds. And no, I have no idea how a basically stock 914 2.0L ends up in the same class as a very stout 964. But then again I am not the one on the short end of the results stick (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) If I were him I would be checking my car to see if there was anything to protest...there isn't. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/burnout.gif) Clearly youre not aware of the special handling dust that sits in all 914's making them far superior to 964's. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Great job! Sorry I missed running today I couldnt get out of family obligations. |
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| DanT |
Sep 30 2006, 11:29 PM
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#31
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Going back to the Dark Side! Group: Members Posts: 4,300 Joined: 4-October 04 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 2,880 Region Association: None |
thanks Trek and Grant...
I thought that was just regular old dust (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) Maybe there is something to that dust afterall. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
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| Randal |
Oct 1 2006, 12:46 PM
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#32
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,446 Joined: 29-May 03 From: Los Altos, CA Member No.: 750 |
QUOTE(Randal @ Sep 27 2006, 10:34 PM) QUOTE(Dan (Almaden Valley) @ Sep 27 2006, 04:57 PM) Grant and others. The course is now posted on the GGR website. www.pca-ggr.org Road race. Well it ended up being a very tight and busy course, even though it was laid out over a huge huge area. A real negative was that all the course workers were first timers, excluding Dan and myself. What is happening as the course gets laid out is that people in the club's "upper echelons" walking the course make comments and or changes at will. If you look at Paul's design there were straights everywhere between fairly open corners, so with the right line speed could be retained. The final layout ended up being very distinctive corners with very little straights anywhere, so the course designers desire to have a course that flowed ended up being exactly the opposite. As usual experience in laying out (physically) a course makes all the difference. If Hank Watts is in the truck cab telling you where to go, while people in the back are throwing out cones, the course always seems to flow and miss all the terrible spots at Candlestick. Next time I design a course I'm making sure no changes are made in the layout unless it is discussed in advance. |
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| J P Stein |
Oct 1 2006, 02:16 PM
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#33
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Randal @ Oct 1 2006, 11:46 AM) Next time I design a course I'm making sure no changes are made in the layout unless it is discussed in advance. Well no shit........I'm glad (in a perverse way) that I'm not the only one that fights that battle monthly. I like a smooth (free of lumps smooth) and flowing course with safety being foremost regardless of length or time to negociate. Many folks can't "see" ground and don't understand why an area is avoided. We also keep the course workers in mind with regard to keeping cones to a minimum and thus keeping things moving along with minimal cone shagging. This also allows the drivers to freelance a bit. That said, there are a "few" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) discussions amongst "the crew" during set up and we are open to suggestions from others.....maybe 20-30% of which are implemented.....many are responded to with "If you want input, get your ass out here and help with the grunt work". We have from 7 till 9ish to get set up.....no time to fuck around.....tempers have been know to flare, feelings get hurt...yada. Cones being moved without the consent of "the crew" will get ya a non-PC tongue lashing. Someone has to be in charge & play hard ass on occasion.....no joy from me here, in fact, I've just about had my fill of it. I actually like AXing with the SCCA crowd better. Show up early, help if asked, drive, and go home. There's even a bit of time to swap lies. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
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| Randal |
Oct 1 2006, 05:31 PM
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#34
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,446 Joined: 29-May 03 From: Los Altos, CA Member No.: 750 |
QUOTE(J P Stein @ Oct 1 2006, 01:16 PM) QUOTE(Randal @ Oct 1 2006, 11:46 AM) Next time I design a course I'm making sure no changes are made in the layout unless it is discussed in advance. Well no shit........I'm glad (in a perverse way) that I'm not the only one that fights that battle monthly. I like a smooth (free of lumps smooth) and flowing course with safety being foremost regardless of length or time to negociate. Many folks can't "see" ground and don't understand why an area is avoided. We also keep the course workers in mind with regard to keeping cones to a minimum and thus keeping things moving along with minimal cone shagging. This also allows the drivers to freelance a bit. That said, there are a "few" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) discussions amongst "the crew" during set up and we are open to suggestions from others.....maybe 20-30% of which are implemented.....many are responded to with "If you want input, get your ass out here and help with the grunt work". We have from 7 till 9ish to get set up.....no time to fuck around.....tempers have been know to flare, feelings get hurt...yada. Cones being moved without the consent of "the crew" will get ya a non-PC tongue lashing. Someone has to be in charge & play hard ass on occasion.....no joy from me here, in fact, I've just about had my fill of it. I actually like AXing with the SCCA crowd better. Show up early, help if asked, drive, and go home. There's even a bit of time to swap lies. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) "Someone has to be in charge & play hard ass on occasion" How right that is. |
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| DanT |
Oct 1 2006, 08:00 PM
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#35
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Going back to the Dark Side! Group: Members Posts: 4,300 Joined: 4-October 04 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 2,880 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Randal @ Oct 1 2006, 04:31 PM) QUOTE(J P Stein @ Oct 1 2006, 01:16 PM) QUOTE(Randal @ Oct 1 2006, 11:46 AM) Next time I design a course I'm making sure no changes are made in the layout unless it is discussed in advance. Well no shit........I'm glad (in a perverse way) that I'm not the only one that fights that battle monthly. I like a smooth (free of lumps smooth) and flowing course with safety being foremost regardless of length or time to negociate. Many folks can't "see" ground and don't understand why an area is avoided. We also keep the course workers in mind with regard to keeping cones to a minimum and thus keeping things moving along with minimal cone shagging. This also allows the drivers to freelance a bit. That said, there are a "few" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) discussions amongst "the crew" during set up and we are open to suggestions from others.....maybe 20-30% of which are implemented.....many are responded to with "If you want input, get your ass out here and help with the grunt work". We have from 7 till 9ish to get set up.....no time to fuck around.....tempers have been know to flare, feelings get hurt...yada. Cones being moved without the consent of "the crew" will get ya a non-PC tongue lashing. Someone has to be in charge & play hard ass on occasion.....no joy from me here, in fact, I've just about had my fill of it. I actually like AXing with the SCCA crowd better. Show up early, help if asked, drive, and go home. There's even a bit of time to swap lies. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) "Someone has to be in charge & play hard ass on occasion" How right that is. Randal, I agree with your sentiment. Although Candlestick presents other challenges with terrain and such. Too much of everyone wanting to be a nice guy to keep newbies coming back. Meanwhile, courses are being constantly changed by folks that were not part of the set up crew. It seems to happen at every event. Other than safety aspects we should respect the designer's vision. Problem with that is that we have folks that are designing courses with little experience and even less knowledge of our rules with respect to dimensions and safety. On yesterdays course, there were several of the corners on the back side that were less than 18' after Paul had set it up.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) That is a problem.... |
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| grantsfo |
Oct 1 2006, 08:52 PM
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#36
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Arrrrhhhh! Group: Members Posts: 4,327 Joined: 16-March 03 Member No.: 433 Region Association: None |
I have to say I really haven't been to many GGR events where the course didn't have that "coney" unintuitive feel. It always feels like somone has setup the course up to trick drivers.
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| Trekkor |
Oct 1 2006, 11:12 PM
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#37
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I do things... Group: Members Posts: 7,809 Joined: 2-December 03 From: Napa, Ca Member No.: 1,413 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE It always feels like somone has setup the course up to trick drivers. I can't stand that. That last course Randal did was amazing and flowed very well. We should run sucessful courses more than once. KT |
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| DanT |
Oct 1 2006, 11:51 PM
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#38
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Going back to the Dark Side! Group: Members Posts: 4,300 Joined: 4-October 04 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 2,880 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(trekkor @ Oct 1 2006, 10:12 PM) QUOTE It always feels like somone has setup the course up to trick drivers. I can't stand that. That last course Randal did was amazing and flowed very well. We should run sucessful courses more than once. KT Yesterdays course was not that bad. The candlestick surface was more agrivating than the course. Yes it was busy but certainly not "tricky". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) between the bumps and the lack of traction (yes traction problems even with a tired 2.0L) the surface was more of a challenge than the course. It pretty much turned the same way most of the time on the left side and the right side was mostly a series of left right flicks (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) at least for my 914. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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| ConeDodger |
Oct 2 2006, 10:19 AM
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#39
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Apex killer! Group: Members Posts: 23,575 Joined: 31-December 04 From: Tahoe Area Member No.: 3,380 Region Association: Northern California
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QUOTE(Dan (Almaden Valley) @ Oct 1 2006, 10:51 PM) QUOTE(trekkor @ Oct 1 2006, 10:12 PM) QUOTE It always feels like somone has setup the course up to trick drivers. I can't stand that. That last course Randal did was amazing and flowed very well. We should run sucessful courses more than once. KT Yesterdays course was not that bad. The candlestick surface was more agrivating than the course. Yes it was busy but certainly not "tricky". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) between the bumps and the lack of traction (yes traction problems even with a tired 2.0L) the surface was more of a challenge than the course. It pretty much turned the same way most of the time on the left side and the right side was mostly a series of left right flicks (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) at least for my 914. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Lets remember culture and perspective Dan, what doesn't feel tricky to you might be a maze to about 75% of the people there. You are experienced and an instructor. A couple of us SVR autocrossers were having pizza one evening and we almost organized a black ops mission to steal half of GGR's cones and sink them in the Bay! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I know now that I have begun using my new to me six that what feels wide open in the four can feel claustraphobic in the six. You use a lot more course and instead of a momentum car you have a power and momentum car. It would be so cool to go to an event at Alameda with that table flat surface and have a course that was fast and flowing with a two lap run to get the tires hot. As for your discussion about people changing the course that is terrible! Only a safety steward should overrule the course designer and eventmaster. EVER! |
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| grantsfo |
Oct 2 2006, 11:09 AM
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#40
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Arrrrhhhh! Group: Members Posts: 4,327 Joined: 16-March 03 Member No.: 433 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Rotten Robby @ Oct 2 2006, 09:19 AM) A couple of us SVR autocrossers were having pizza one evening and we almost organized a black ops mission to steal half of GGR's cones and sink them in the Bay! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) LOL! Where do I sign up for covert ops? "Busy" = lots of useless cones used to confuse people. On a seperate and more serious note did you see that Alan Jung in a stock Cayman S placed 2nd. WOW! Was his car really stock with street tires? |
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