New to 914's, NEED HELP! Unleaded? Performance parts? Anything, Just got hold of a twin carb converted 914 lump, and now need some adv Options

[rhodyguy]

when people run t3s or 4s in a bug with the stock cooling shroud, do they have to fab up rear hanger for the suspended weight? i know my fasty had a rear support bar.

k

[SGB]

not to worry. We are all Cheap-Sons-of-Bitches (CSOB). Thats why we have NARPS! Jake always stimulates discussion. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[fall-apart-dave]

First- great club name! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Second- Empi carbs are prolly made in Brazil, but if they duplicate Weber layout for less money, it might be great. 44 is kinda big, but you might can get smaller venturis. Try to get a tall intake manifold. I used to have little stubby ones, and the torque wasn't there at all untill 4k rpm. Taller intakes bring the torque down lower.
Third- looks are good for 10-15% hp increase. Without massive surgury, 100 to 110 hp is tops, so bling becomes a very efficient upgrade... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

The EMPI HPMX carbs are identical with the exception of some sort of adjuster somewhere that the Weber doesn't have. Otherwise they are the same.

STILL not found a head that I like, the search goes on!

Cheers about my name - it's my nickname from when I used to play Rugby (Football without padding). I used to get carried off in Ambulances a lot because I had a habbit of picking out the biggest guy on the pitch and tackling him... And coming off far worse... I had to stop playing because I was falling apart (right shoulder kept dislocating, cartalidge in left knee shot, kink in my collar bone where I broke it, jaw doesn't sit straight where I broke it...) so I got the name Fall Apart Dave! The name just stuck, and it's unique!

110 horses will do me fine for now since the Bug handles like a shopping cart with a missing wheel, and scares the hell out of me when I hit 80mph! Would just like it to move off the mark quick so that I can humiliate Johnny-Chav-Racer in his compact car with a baked bean can for an exhaust when he gets eaten up by a 36 year old rust heap!

[fall-apart-dave]

They guy I bought it off was running it in a buggy and he didn't have anything supporting it. That being said, you may be right. My frame horns seem to be holding up though, so I'll see if the lump threatens to fall out of the back! I'll let ya know how I get on! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif))

[fall-apart-dave]

And it's all gone quiet over there... So, my original question still stands... Has anyone any advice on running Weber IDF twin carbs or EMPI HPMX twin carbs (identical carbs, different brand)? Advice on re-jetting, balancing and fitment would be well recieved! ESPECIALLY jetting!

Cheers Dudes!

Fall Apart Dave

[Dave_Darling]

It's gone quiet because most of us are in the US, and it was oh-dark-thirty in the morning when you last posted... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

--DD

[Jake Raby]

I apologise for this reply sounding short and off-hand Jake, and I apreciate that you probably know a lot more on this subject than I,

Yep. I have compared them back to back on the same engine.

I don't care what a brand is- I go with what I see work and evaluate the components on fit, finish, function and data derived from comparative testing. I have many components that are "Brand names" that aren't worth a damn, and others that are in black and white boxes that work better. Its my job to see how things work and I do it as well as it can be done!

I have recently finished a comparative test between an Italian Weber 20 years old, a Brand new Spanish made Weber, an American Made weber (now being made in North Carolina) as well as the 44 HPMX carbs.

This test was done back to back with the same jetting, venturis and etc. No changes were made the the engine. Carb inlet temps didn't vary more than 2% across the entire test.

I have not released the results of this test as of yet because Iwant to Re-do the test with the new dyno for back to back comparison on a much newer set up with better resolution on the data acquisition..

The general rule is that anything that says Empi on it needs to be approached with care and close observation.

I'll say that my recent data on the topic support this.

The best option is to buy a used set of webers or dells and send them to my buddy Art Thraen at Aircooled Engineering. He'll make them better than new.. There is nothing like an Italian weber.

[So.Cal.914]

Dave:

First, Welcome!

You know how some people have nothing better to do all day so they spend all

their time following their passion? Thats Jake, And he found a way to make it pay.

IMHO he is "Thee" Type IV expert, now I know that is a bold statement but once

you get to know his work (and him) I think you will agree. So when Jake has an

opinion on something you can bet that it is based on fact and research.

Bling. I chromed my engine tin and painted the fan shroud, quite an improvment.

A set of K&N air filters and chrome your exhaust(what ever you get) and it should

look Tits. 96's should help quite a bit with performance and I would sudjest

in your future a good carb cam (Jake has a nice setup) and a 2.0 CW crank &

rods. If you deside to go that route than run your engine as is (internally) and

collect your parts, get them for the 2.0 and do it all at once. It's not instant

gratification but it will be worth it.

Now, "Harder than stepping in rocking horse poo" -- "Dogpants"--"Billy-Joe Boyo"

Thats good $hit.... Later Dude

[SGB]

anything that says Empi on it needs to be approached with care and close observation.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Jake CAN be diplomatic!

what Paul said is right. Experience is the teacher. I'll bet Jake has blown up more stuff (on purpose and perhaps not) than I'll ever even see.

[Jake Raby]

I hate to be diplomatic.. But I fuckin' hate it.

I'd like nothing more than to drag the bastards behind my car that make the junk parts until their bones leave white marks on the pavement.. But it's damn near 2007 and people like me have been replaced with ass kissing, politically correct, balless sorry excuses for men and its now accepted and considered "the way to be"...

I'd like to tell you the real truth, but then one of those jackasses would try to make shop, his shop...

OK, thats all for now folks!

[fall-apart-dave]

I hate to be diplomatic.. But I fuckin' hate it.

I'd like nothing more than to drag the bastards behind my car that make the junk parts until their bones leave white marks on the pavement.. But it's damn near 2007 and people like me have been replaced with ass kissing, politically correct, balless sorry excuses for men and its now accepted and considered "the way to be"...

I'd like to tell you the real truth, but then one of those jackasses would try to make shop, his shop...

OK, thats all for now folks!

Jake, I bow to your experience! As said before, apologies for the short nature of my previous reply to you, but I've had enough of people who take one look at somehting and snub it without reason. I do agree with you, diplomacy is something that really rakes across my tits too, which is why I said what I did. I hope you respect that, and don't think that I was having a pop out of cockiness. I appreciate your advice though. Like I said, I've yet to hear something bad about the HPMX carbs, and Street Style Power (sister company to VW Heritage over this end of the pond) has written a review on the HPMX and IDF carbs that says:

"The best carbs for street and strip. One Butterfly per cylinder allows for precise tuning and great power. In 2004 Weber went out of business and so EMPI started manufacturing their own version of the famous Weber IDF carburetor called the EMPI HPMX. The HPMX carbs are of equal quality to the Webers and look virtually identical but EMPI have engineered improvements which help the HPMX produce more power than original Weber carbs. This has been proven by dyno testing in a Hot VWs article when an 1835cc engine produced 7.35 bhp more with HPMX carbs than with Webers. All spare parts such as jets, venturis etc are interchangeable between both brands of carburetor. These carburetors do not have chokes. Kits include manifolds, hex bar linkage, oval air filters and hardware."

Anyway, for now I have bought the EMPI's, so will use them. I'm just trying to find some T4 / 914 manifolds for them! Don't fancy paying £78 + £10 postage from dealers over here (thats like double what they cost over your way! Found some one Ebay that work out at about £60 including shipping from the States! RIP-OFF UK!!!!). Honestly, finding good parts at a reasonable price over here is like looking for hens teeth. Just not happening! I might emigrate to the States, build my dream machine, and ship it back on a big raft with a bedsheet for a sail, Johnny Castaway style!

I would be interested to find out what you found with the carbs. Drop me an email sometime on fall-apart-dave@hotmail.co.uk (I don't mind giving that one out, it's my "junk mail" account, don't be offended, its just if peiople read this forum and send me whatever crap they want to send, I don't care because it's full of spam anyway... MMMMM... FRIED SPAM!!!! Do you guys have Spam over there? The canned meat, not the junk emails... Well, they say meat. That's maybe pushing it. Canned animal, certainly. Lard content, definately! But meat? Thats pushing the trade descriptions act to it's very outer limits!

And Billy-Joe Boyo comes from the British equivilant of Red Necks and scumbags (we call them Chavs). We have a lot of young lads knocking about in small cars with big exhausts which are just far too big for the engine - no back pressure - with amazingly crap 1000cc - 1600cc stock engines thinking they are the next big thing because they bought a few off-the-shelf bits from the local accessory shop with their weekly benefit cheque. I love it when my shabby-looking bug smokes 'em off the line... Of course, then I have to look them in the eye when they come past me a mile or so down the road because my bug won't go much quicker than 80mph on the 1600 engine it had fitted before the 914 lump transplant! But then I just pretend like I'm done racing, I've proved my point, and I don't need to prove it further!

Anyway, I gotta go drop the kids off at the pool (have a crap in Brit-slang!).

Later dudes!

[fall-apart-dave]

Anyway, back to the point in hand. Can anyone give me advice on how best to jet a HPMX / IDF 44 carb with 36mm Venturis? Any other adivce on fitting etc?

Cheers!

[So.Cal.914]

Dave it really depends on what you end up with in your engine. I go by the

color of my plugs, I go with a plug the color of coffee with a little cream.

Install your carbs and put in a set of fresh plugs, go out run your car hard for

20 minutes and stop were ever you are and pull a plug(all if you are comfortable

with were you are)check the color. You don't want them running Fat(black and wet)

nore do you want them lean(light tan) . Or you can do the Spam test, when the

plug comes out smelling like Spam or your engine scatters and it lays in chunks

like Spam you know it is set up wrong. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) When you have them installed, drop

us a line we'll talk you thru it.

Oh and Dave Spam is made by Hormel in Minnesota (USA).

[Jake Raby]

Weber didn't go out of business, the author of that article needed to do some extra homwework! If he would come stand next to me for 30 minutes I'd give him the necessary data right in front of his very eyes to write the correct article on the subject!

EMPI have engineered improvements which help the HPMX produce more power than original Weber carbs

What?? What the hell did that just say?? Did it say that EMPI Engineered it BETTER than Weber?? I don't friggin think so!! We are talking about a company here that is notorious for selling half rate parts versus an original equipment manufacturer of Carburetors with 40+ years in the business of making carbs! Do some searches on EMPI parts on other forums and you'll see that the thoughts and findings don't support this statement in the article.

People that write articles need to take their writings seriously- I have a HUGE problem with guys writing about things and not basing the article on their own results, but rather hearsay and claims- thats bullshit and it hurts our engines daily.

[fall-apart-dave]

Well, let me know how you get on with your results man, drop me an email if you like on fall-apart-dave@hotmail.co.uk and give me some good, genuine info on carbs...