I have a VW Baja Bug, which I have just sourced a 1.8 914 engine for. It has twin solex carbs fitted after scrapping the dead fuel injection system + a Baja exhaust etc ready to go into my car, but I need some advice.

The car:

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The new engine:

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Firstly, I have looked round the net and so far found out that it maybe will work fine with high octane unleaded petrol, possible with some additive in there. Can anyone shead some light on this for me?

Are there any parts available to pretty the engine up? For VW's you get get hundreds of chrome, aluminium and alloy dress-up parts, wondering if there is anything like that for the 914? Or am I going to have to polish, paint and make parts to pretty this engine up? Here's a pic of my old engine before I sold it (not all chrome fitted when pic was taken).

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I have a nitrous oxide system sat in my garage at the moment, jetted with a pair of 25 shot jets from a previous bug engine. The VW engines coped with it nicely as they are low compression anyway and the kit is only a small one (each 25 shot nozzle was for either inlet, so each side of the engine got a 25 shot on the rare occasions I used it, effectively being a 50 shot system). You all know what question is coming - Has anyone ever fitted kits to 914's, or know enough about them to advise whether this is just a bad idea or a really stupid one?

Lastly, other performance parts for a 914 engine. I'm struggling to come up with anything, other than people trying to sell me things like big bore kits and duration cams from a VW Type 4 engine that "should fit just fine..." Can anyone offer any advice about this at all? Are the type 4 parts suitable, or would I just be downgrading / moving pointlessly horizontally? Can anyone point me to any parts to make the engine give a little more?

Lastly, are there any hurdles to watch out for? Things that regularly go wrong? Tricks, traps or nacks to keeping the engine running smoothly? I have never played with a 914 engine before, have heard rumours about them being fitted into a bug, now I've got mine fitted but it's still not on the road.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I live off the East Coast of the UK in Northumberland, my email address is fall-apart-dave@hotmail.co.uk

If you haven't already, you may want to go to http://www.shoptalkforums.com/ and check the Type 4 and the Aircooled Technology forums. Lots of good T4 information to be found.

You are correct about the T4 market being more limited than the T1 market, especially in the bling category. It takes a little more effort to find T4 parts and service.

The Haynes 914 manual indicates that for stock 1.8 liter engines with an engine code of EC use 91 octane while the AN code engines use 98 octane.

Hey Hey

Let me start by saying

There are lots of T4 swaps into bugs on this side of the pond, and lots of T1 fans in the club as well. You are at the right place to find what your looking for. Wait for some of the west coast boys to wake up, and you will have some answers.

The biggest difference you will find with the T1 vs T4 is $$$. The T4 is considered an upgrade. Run a search thru the forum and poke around.

Later

Here's a pic of of Bill K's conversion into a type 1. I saw this car in Sacramento at Bugorama and it is beautiful.

Here are some must read sites for conversions.

Type IV DTM

Type IV store

Joe Cali's Conversion Manual

Tuna's Web site

Dave

You mentioned scrapping the EFI, so it sounds like you have an EC-code US-spec 1.8 motor. It should work just fine on regular unleaded fuel--the high-octane stuff is not necessary. (Verify the engine number, though; if it starts with AN you have a high-compression European 1.8 engine and you do want to use the high-octane stuff!)




The 914 engine is a version of the VW Type IV. So parts for a Type IV do indeed work just fine with a 914 engine. Most big-bore kits are a pain to fit properly, though, as the cylinders do not tend to be very round or very even, plus they cool somewhat unevenly and don't seem to last that long... Usually 96mm is about as large a bore as you can safely go with hopes of long engine life, unless you want to spend big $$ on Nikasil cylinders.

One of the best things you can do for your engine's performance is to put a good exhaust on it. You obviously can't use the 914 exhaust, so as long as you have to change it out you ought to go with something that flows well and makes power. If you can afford it, Tangerine Racing (http://www.tangerineracing.com) is probably the best available. On your side of the Atlantic, there are a number of German tuners who have decent ones available. And I think Lee from LA Performance in the UK has some decent ones available as well.

--DD

Cheers for all the advice guys, I'll keep searching, hunting and trying! Any ideas from the West Coast guys? Surely you lot must be out of bed by now!

Well Dave,

Everything you listed as a possibilty can be done. From the bling to the NOS and more.

Ya want 110 HP? (build your own)
Ya want 160HP? (Build your own from a Jake kit?
Ya want 300 HP Non turbo. No problem. (Jake)
Ya want 300-400+ HP turbo. No problem. (Marty)
Ya want a really kewl looking COOLING system. No problem. (Jake)
Ya want some serious bling factor. No problem. (Ahnendorp/Remmelle/Udo)
Want a bad ass header system? No problem (assorted)

And I can go on forever. There are more goodies for the type 4 engine than has EVER been available before.

Most of us here on the club know where you can buy dam near anything you can dream of....

FOR A PRICE.

I have seen or know of, cosmeticaly great looking and great running engines for as little as 1000 USD (If your lucky)
And as much as 30k for a guy in Hawaii that a BIG Named engine builder is putting together. (monster engine)

Use the search function of this BBS and look for engine pics. If ya need ideas. Start there.

NOW:

Why don't you give us a rundown of what your end result is.
And how much time and $$$s do you want to spend.

That will save us all a bunch of time. Thus helping you get what you need.

Cause we are all about that. Helping each other.

So what do you want this car to perform like? A/Xer, Kafer car, Strip car, daily driver, German Look, Sand/dirt, Off road style,. ETC.......

The more you tell us. The better we can direct you......

Oh..... Before I forget...

Welcome..!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cheers,
Clayton

Ok, well for now I’m not too bothered about all-out screamin’ demon strip car! It’s a Baja bug, so really to suit the style of car it needs to be a grunty loud engine with lots of bling above anything else! For the time being I’ll be happy with just getting 110 bhp or so. I’m concentrating elsewhere on the car too. I’m about to convert the rear drums do discs as the drums are absolutely dogpants at stopping the car. Once that is done I will look at upgrades to the engine. So, does anyone have any advice? As I said before there are twin solex carbs on there at the moment, so I’m guessing the advice would be “bigger carbs, better exhaust…” I don’t want to lose the twin cannon system I have as I like the look of them. Bear in mind though that I live in the UK and finding 914 parts round here is harder than stepping in rocking horse poo.

Basically, I am due a bonus of £2000 (about $3000 - $3500 ish) around April of next year, plus about £1000 due in back pay due in a couple of months time. This will hopefully fund a full bare metal re-spray, engine upgrades, as well as other goodies. What I want from the engine is a good quick street machine. It doesn’t have to eat Ferrari’s and Subaru’s, but I don’t want to be outrun by the average Billy-Joe Boyo in his souped up VW Golf (Rabbit) either. Its acceleration I want more than top speed, the handling scares the hell out of me when I hit 80mph anyway so won’t be going much quicker than that! I had an Audi A4 as my last car which wasn’t too slow but it was heavy. If I can get it to move quicker than the A4 off the mark, I’ll be happy… …For now…

I’ll keep putting pictured on here as I go! Hopefully I won’t sell the project before I finish it! (I’m always open to offers when I’m building a project!).


Thanks for everyone's help for now, I'm amazaed at how welcome people are making me feel!

Welcome... and congrats on finding your engine. Most of the advice given above is pretty good.

Remember, with some elbow grease, you can do a lot of your own bling factor... and learn alot about your motor.

Strip down the motor to the long-block and clean, clean, clean.

Powdercoat your engine tin... that goes a long way towards making things nice. Paint works too, but powdercoat is very durable.

Home anodizing kits and home plating kits are available. Nothing quite like the feeling of saying "I did that!"

Start with a vision and make a plan to get there!

Again... welcome!

Cheers,
Lawrence

Thanks for that! I was planning to strip & clean the lump. I didn't realise there are home plate kits available though! I was going to use tubs and tubs of elbow grease, and polish every bit I could. But annodising would make my job far easier. I was looking around for annodised bolts so that I can get all the detail to match my paintwork, but if I can do it myself all the better!

So, what would the advice be on getting some extra power? Nothing huge just now, just enough to upset a few people at being burned off by a 37 year old, flat-4 horizontally opposed, 4 speed farting camel!

Actually, Dave Darling is a West Coast guy... We are awake.

Here is a recent topic on engine bling:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=60992


Most 914 go pretty conservative compared to bug show cars. That's probably because you can barely see the engine in a 914. :-)

First off:
GET RID OF THAT HORRIBLE EXHAUST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Secondly, read, read, read here
www.aircooledtechnology.com
www.type4store.com
www.tunacan.net/t4

And listen to our radio show at www.aircooledtechnology.com/radio

ALL I do are Type 4 conversions and performance upgrades/parts. Do searches under my name here, on the STF and on google and read for months....

New Raby carb cam with lifters
Dual Webbers or Dells carbs instead of those single throats
96mm pistons
Mallory dizzy

and A NEW Header as that thing is robbing all your hp!!

100 hp about.

Ok... Advice taken on board! Exhaust to go! lol! New carbs are something I was considering anyway... I was looking at an EMPI HPMX 44mm pair, but I'm guessing some of you boys know a better setup. New header? Not knowing about the 914's I';m not sure what's wrong with the header on there? Can anyone enlighten me as to which I should have, how much, and where in the UK I can get it?

Here's a pic of where the engine is going to go. I haven't got time just now to check out all the links I've been given, but I will do I promise!

Exhaust: http://www.tangerineracing.com -- simply the best. No idea who carries it in the UK, if anyone does.
Raby has an "econo header" but I don't know if it works with the stock pancake cooling. Nor do I know if anyone over that-a-way carries it.
In Germany, there are places like Ahnendorp that make decent exhausts.

Your exhaust completely splits the left and right cylinders, which just is not good for flow at all. A good 4-2-1 header setup, or even a good 4-1 setup, will help quite a bit.

--DD

Alrighty then! We have our first upgrade (potentially!). Can anyone tell me if twin EMPI HPMX 44 carbs (the dual type) are any good on a 914 lump?

Remember it's a 1.8, currently with twin solex single barrel carbs on there at the moment in favour of the injection system. I have managed to get hold of brand new HPMX carbs at half retail (they retail for a bit more this side of the pond unfortunately!), but it's a T1 beetle kit, not the T4 which I would need.

Before I go sourcing parts, I just want to know if anyone has had any experience with these carbs at all? They are near as damn it identical to Weber IDF carbs (all parts are exchangable between the two). Need to get them jetted properly and balanced, obviously! Just got to find a place here in the UK which can do the job properly, unless someone out there has a pearl of advice for me?

If they are no good, I have a buyer. Also have a buyer for the Solex carbs, which will pay for the new inlets that I'll need.

Still searching for a header that will suite a Baja bug though, not finding much as of yet. Looks are as important as performance here.

Cheers DUDES!

Fall Apart Dave!

First- great club name!
Second- Empi carbs are prolly made in Brazil, but if they duplicate Weber layout for less money, it might be great. 44 is kinda big, but you might can get smaller venturis. Try to get a tall intake manifold. I used to have little stubby ones, and the torque wasn't there at all untill 4k rpm. Taller intakes bring the torque down lower.
Third- looks are good for 10-15% hp increase. Without massive surgury, 100 to 110 hp is tops, so bling becomes a very efficient upgrade...

Empi carbs are a knock off of a real Weber. They are made in China and are good to sell to your worst enemy.

Buy real Webers.

Not very helpful in my current position, but duely noted. If Webers had been available for a reasonable price, I would have bought webers. I know the EMPI ones are copies, but I'm not a sucker for brand names. If a lesser renowned brand can perform as well as a better know brand, I will consider the lesser brand. I have never heard a bad word said about EMPI carbs except "It's not a Weber..." and brand snobery isn't really helpful to anyone, least of all me since I have the EMPI's now. So aside from people telling me I should have bought Weber (given they are now out of business anyway, I'd have thought clones were an ideal option anyway) on the grounds that they are better carbs simply because they say Weber on the side, can anyone offer helpful advice? I am willing to listen to people who can lay down a reasoned, sensible argument, but please- no brand snobs!

I apologise for this reply sounding short and off-hand Jake, and I apreciate that you probably know a lot more on this subject than I, but why waste both our times typing a reply that basically says "EMPI are rubbish because they aren't Weber..."? Sorry, but I just want helpful advice, not a slating because I bought something that wasn't manufactured in the West.

when people run t3s or 4s in a bug with the stock cooling shroud, do they have to fab up rear hanger for the suspended weight? i know my fasty had a rear support bar.

k

not to worry. We are all Cheap-Sons-of-Bitches (CSOB). Thats why we have NARPS! Jake always stimulates discussion.

The EMPI HPMX carbs are identical with the exception of some sort of adjuster somewhere that the Weber doesn't have. Otherwise they are the same.

STILL not found a head that I like, the search goes on!

Cheers about my name - it's my nickname from when I used to play Rugby (Football without padding). I used to get carried off in Ambulances a lot because I had a habbit of picking out the biggest guy on the pitch and tackling him... And coming off far worse... I had to stop playing because I was falling apart (right shoulder kept dislocating, cartalidge in left knee shot, kink in my collar bone where I broke it, jaw doesn't sit straight where I broke it...) so I got the name Fall Apart Dave! The name just stuck, and it's unique!

110 horses will do me fine for now since the Bug handles like a shopping cart with a missing wheel, and scares the hell out of me when I hit 80mph! Would just like it to move off the mark quick so that I can humiliate Johnny-Chav-Racer in his compact car with a baked bean can for an exhaust when he gets eaten up by a 36 year old rust heap!

They guy I bought it off was running it in a buggy and he didn't have anything supporting it. That being said, you may be right. My frame horns seem to be holding up though, so I'll see if the lump threatens to fall out of the back! I'll let ya know how I get on! )

And it's all gone quiet over there... So, my original question still stands... Has anyone any advice on running Weber IDF twin carbs or EMPI HPMX twin carbs (identical carbs, different brand)? Advice on re-jetting, balancing and fitment would be well recieved! ESPECIALLY jetting!

Cheers Dudes!

Fall Apart Dave

It's gone quiet because most of us are in the US, and it was oh-dark-thirty in the morning when you last posted...

--DD

Yep. I have compared them back to back on the same engine.

I don't care what a brand is- I go with what I see work and evaluate the components on fit, finish, function and data derived from comparative testing. I have many components that are "Brand names" that aren't worth a damn, and others that are in black and white boxes that work better. Its my job to see how things work and I do it as well as it can be done!

I have recently finished a comparative test between an Italian Weber 20 years old, a Brand new Spanish made Weber, an American Made weber (now being made in North Carolina) as well as the 44 HPMX carbs.

This test was done back to back with the same jetting, venturis and etc. No changes were made the the engine. Carb inlet temps didn't vary more than 2% across the entire test.

I have not released the results of this test as of yet because Iwant to Re-do the test with the new dyno for back to back comparison on a much newer set up with better resolution on the data acquisition..

The general rule is that anything that says Empi on it needs to be approached with care and close observation.

I'll say that my recent data on the topic support this.

The best option is to buy a used set of webers or dells and send them to my buddy Art Thraen at Aircooled Engineering. He'll make them better than new.. There is nothing like an Italian weber.

Dave:

First, Welcome!

You know how some people have nothing better to do all day so they spend all

their time following their passion? Thats Jake, And he found a way to make it pay.

IMHO he is "Thee" Type IV expert, now I know that is a bold statement but once

you get to know his work (and him) I think you will agree. So when Jake has an

opinion on something you can bet that it is based on fact and research.

Bling. I chromed my engine tin and painted the fan shroud, quite an improvment.

A set of K&N air filters and chrome your exhaust(what ever you get) and it should

look Tits. 96's should help quite a bit with performance and I would sudjest

in your future a good carb cam (Jake has a nice setup) and a 2.0 CW crank &

rods. If you deside to go that route than run your engine as is (internally) and

collect your parts, get them for the 2.0 and do it all at once. It's not instant

gratification but it will be worth it.

Now, "Harder than stepping in rocking horse poo" -- "Dogpants"--"Billy-Joe Boyo"

Thats good $hit.... Later Dude

Jake CAN be diplomatic!

what Paul said is right. Experience is the teacher. I'll bet Jake has blown up more stuff (on purpose and perhaps not) than I'll ever even see.

I hate to be diplomatic.. But I fuckin' hate it.

I'd like nothing more than to drag the bastards behind my car that make the junk parts until their bones leave white marks on the pavement.. But it's damn near 2007 and people like me have been replaced with ass kissing, politically correct, balless sorry excuses for men and its now accepted and considered "the way to be"...

I'd like to tell you the real truth, but then one of those jackasses would try to make shop, his shop...

OK, thats all for now folks!

Jake, I bow to your experience! As said before, apologies for the short nature of my previous reply to you, but I've had enough of people who take one look at somehting and snub it without reason. I do agree with you, diplomacy is something that really rakes across my tits too, which is why I said what I did. I hope you respect that, and don't think that I was having a pop out of cockiness. I appreciate your advice though. Like I said, I've yet to hear something bad about the HPMX carbs, and Street Style Power (sister company to VW Heritage over this end of the pond) has written a review on the HPMX and IDF carbs that says:

"The best carbs for street and strip. One Butterfly per cylinder allows for precise tuning and great power. In 2004 Weber went out of business and so EMPI started manufacturing their own version of the famous Weber IDF carburetor called the EMPI HPMX. The HPMX carbs are of equal quality to the Webers and look virtually identical but EMPI have engineered improvements which help the HPMX produce more power than original Weber carbs. This has been proven by dyno testing in a Hot VWs article when an 1835cc engine produced 7.35 bhp more with HPMX carbs than with Webers. All spare parts such as jets, venturis etc are interchangeable between both brands of carburetor. These carburetors do not have chokes. Kits include manifolds, hex bar linkage, oval air filters and hardware."

Anyway, for now I have bought the EMPI's, so will use them. I'm just trying to find some T4 / 914 manifolds for them! Don't fancy paying £78 + £10 postage from dealers over here (thats like double what they cost over your way! Found some one Ebay that work out at about £60 including shipping from the States! RIP-OFF UK!!!!). Honestly, finding good parts at a reasonable price over here is like looking for hens teeth. Just not happening! I might emigrate to the States, build my dream machine, and ship it back on a big raft with a bedsheet for a sail, Johnny Castaway style!

I would be interested to find out what you found with the carbs. Drop me an email sometime on fall-apart-dave@hotmail.co.uk (I don't mind giving that one out, it's my "junk mail" account, don't be offended, its just if peiople read this forum and send me whatever crap they want to send, I don't care because it's full of spam anyway... MMMMM... FRIED SPAM!!!! Do you guys have Spam over there? The canned meat, not the junk emails... Well, they say meat. That's maybe pushing it. Canned animal, certainly. Lard content, definately! But meat? Thats pushing the trade descriptions act to it's very outer limits!

And Billy-Joe Boyo comes from the British equivilant of Red Necks and scumbags (we call them Chavs). We have a lot of young lads knocking about in small cars with big exhausts which are just far too big for the engine - no back pressure - with amazingly crap 1000cc - 1600cc stock engines thinking they are the next big thing because they bought a few off-the-shelf bits from the local accessory shop with their weekly benefit cheque. I love it when my shabby-looking bug smokes 'em off the line... Of course, then I have to look them in the eye when they come past me a mile or so down the road because my bug won't go much quicker than 80mph on the 1600 engine it had fitted before the 914 lump transplant! But then I just pretend like I'm done racing, I've proved my point, and I don't need to prove it further!

Anyway, I gotta go drop the kids off at the pool (have a crap in Brit-slang!).

Later dudes!

Anyway, back to the point in hand. Can anyone give me advice on how best to jet a HPMX / IDF 44 carb with 36mm Venturis? Any other adivce on fitting etc?

Cheers!

Dave it really depends on what you end up with in your engine. I go by the

color of my plugs, I go with a plug the color of coffee with a little cream.

Install your carbs and put in a set of fresh plugs, go out run your car hard for

20 minutes and stop were ever you are and pull a plug(all if you are comfortable

with were you are)check the color. You don't want them running Fat(black and wet)

nore do you want them lean(light tan) . Or you can do the Spam test, when the

plug comes out smelling like Spam or your engine scatters and it lays in chunks

like Spam you know it is set up wrong. When you have them installed, drop

us a line we'll talk you thru it.

Oh and Dave Spam is made by Hormel in Minnesota (USA).

Weber didn't go out of business, the author of that article needed to do some extra homwework! If he would come stand next to me for 30 minutes I'd give him the necessary data right in front of his very eyes to write the correct article on the subject!



What?? What the hell did that just say?? Did it say that EMPI Engineered it BETTER than Weber?? I don't friggin think so!! We are talking about a company here that is notorious for selling half rate parts versus an original equipment manufacturer of Carburetors with 40+ years in the business of making carbs! Do some searches on EMPI parts on other forums and you'll see that the thoughts and findings don't support this statement in the article.

People that write articles need to take their writings seriously- I have a HUGE problem with guys writing about things and not basing the article on their own results, but rather hearsay and claims- thats bullshit and it hurts our engines daily.

Well, let me know how you get on with your results man, drop me an email if you like on fall-apart-dave@hotmail.co.uk and give me some good, genuine info on carbs...