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> Weber vs Fuel Injection
grantsfo
post Sep 30 2006, 11:50 PM
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Carbs kick as$ as long as you are driving full throttle. That's pretty much how I drive so they work great for me! If I wanted to do a sissy highway drive at consistently legal speeds I'd likely go with FI. Now that I think about it modern technology is for sissies.
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Howard
post Sep 30 2006, 11:55 PM
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Love FI, but have never had any real problems. Guess if it craps out and parts not available will go to carbs.
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Trekkor
post Oct 1 2006, 12:16 AM
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QUOTE
as long as you are driving full throttle



Ayup, that's the way we do it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


KT
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Crazyhippy
post Oct 1 2006, 12:28 AM
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Modern FI is the shiznit... and for intake noise, run a short intake to the TURBO!!!! It Wails like a banshee anytime it's building boost (above 1600rpmish @ WOT)

BJH
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Bleyseng
post Oct 1 2006, 08:32 AM
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Up in the NW, we always kick the guys asses with carbs. They fight to have fuel going around the tight AX courses, while the FI guys have no problems.

I usually drive WOT too so my gas mileage sucks....my redline is 6200.
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rhodyguy
post Oct 1 2006, 09:28 AM
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what??

k
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fiid
post Oct 1 2006, 10:51 AM
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QUOTE

Modern FI is the shiznit... and for intake noise, run a short intake to the TURBO!!!! It Wails like a banshee anytime it's building boost (above 1600rpmish @ WOT)


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Yeah Babay!

I've gotten a lot of comments on how my car sounds (positive comments), and my exhaust system is a home depot fence post (shout out to trekkor (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)) plumbed into a bursh. Mine is a 16v modern jap motor too. I don't buy that the only good sound out there is with carbs.

Here is a serious question though: Do carbs somehow offer better fuel atomisation than FI??????
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Bleyseng
post Oct 1 2006, 11:02 AM
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google this site:https://www-auth.cs.wisc.edu/lists/vfr/2001-December/msg01190.shtml

This is the best quote:

Fuel injection can also correct itself for altitude, load and temperature variations. Something a carb never has been good at. Think of fuel injection as an Einstein sitting around with a great computer calculating moment to moment your precise fuel needs. Carburators on the other hand, are some dumb redneck sitting in his easy chair at the top of your intake track dumping buckets of fuel down the intake and saying "




(IMG:style_emoticons/default/chairfall.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)
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Trekkor
post Oct 1 2006, 11:15 AM
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FYI:

The local ax hot shoe that basically wins *everytime* he runs against a field of 100+, and two other heavies, run carbs.

A well tuned carbed car will run very well, too.

Correct me I'm wrong, but I believe Terry Zaconne has driven to *every* Porsche Parade since he bought his '67 911.
He's alway's been a top five-ten in the seveal hundred of a/x's he's entered.


KT
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rhodyguy
post Oct 1 2006, 11:35 AM
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Chimp Sanctuary NW. Check it out.
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dave ellison and eric fry are absolutely pathetic as they get their always asses kicked, whilst fighting to get fuel in their carbs.

k
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Bleyseng
post Oct 1 2006, 12:05 PM
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FI, more hp....http://www.twminduction.com/faq/faq.html (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead horse.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead horse.gif)


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Brando
post Oct 1 2006, 12:08 PM
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Carbs are a thing of the past... For early 911s and 912s and 356s, or hot-rod 914s.

In the maintainance aspect, carbs and EFI will only continue to run good if you maintain them. That means: making sure your vacuum lines are good (no leaks), rubber seals are good, parts are working: Auxilary Air Regulator, Cold Start Valve, injectors aren't plugged, MPS/AFS work correctly, etc.

Programmable EFI is the new technology, affords more driveability and more power than carbs.

Although, you see a power increase over stock injection with the proper cam. Stock cam is for the stock induction system.
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SirAndy
post Oct 1 2006, 12:12 PM
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QUOTE(trekkor @ Sep 30 2006, 08:24 PM) *

QUOTE
- cold start problems on those chilly spring/summer/fall/winter mornings

let it warm up
QUOTE
- dropping idle after a spirited run

blip throttle
QUOTE
- clogging idle jets

5 minute fix
QUOTE
- rejetting on the side of the road on your trip to the mountains (or sea, depending on where you live)

prolly not
QUOTE
- headaches on long runs from those "great" sounding carbs

wear a helmet


perfect summary trek! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

you've learned how to deal with the shortcomings of carbs and i prefer a system without shortcomings ...

we both win!
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) Andy
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Aaron Cox
post Oct 1 2006, 01:17 PM
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QUOTE(Bleyseng @ Oct 1 2006, 11:05 AM) *

FI, more hp....http://www.twminduction.com/faq/faq.html (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead horse.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead horse.gif)


yep PEFI is even superior to carbs... im surprised peak power wasnt the same tho... but EFI was better all over teh curve.....

AA
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hedgehog
post Oct 1 2006, 01:57 PM
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QUOTE
bad reason:

lazy owner/mechanic not wanting to learn how to operate a digital volt meter and spend an hour reading how the stock FI works and how to trouble shoot it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)




so if a guy wanted to learn how to operate a digital volt meter and how the stock fi works, then where would he do that
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SirAndy
post Oct 1 2006, 03:18 PM
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QUOTE(hedgehog @ Oct 1 2006, 12:57 PM) *

QUOTE
bad reason:

lazy owner/mechanic not wanting to learn how to operate a digital volt meter and spend an hour reading how the stock FI works and how to trouble shoot it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)


so if a guy wanted to learn how to operate a digital volt meter and how the stock fi works, then where would he do that


this will get you started:

http://members.rennlist.com/pbanders/

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif) Andy
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Trekkor
post Oct 1 2006, 05:02 PM
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I like to stir things up a bit ( as you know ). :naugthy:

I wonder why the PRC 911 Toyo spec race class runs Weber's.
I'll have to ask Rich. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

( Rich runs Weber's, BTW, and almost always wins )


KT
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grantsfo
post Oct 1 2006, 05:18 PM
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QUOTE(Bleyseng @ Oct 1 2006, 07:32 AM) *

Up in the NW, we always kick the guys asses with carbs. They fight to have fuel going around the tight AX courses, while the FI guys have no problems.

I usually drive WOT too so my gas mileage sucks....my redline is 6200.

Come on down to Nor Cal, we have some carb'd T4 cars that will eat fuel injected cars for an appetizer. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Once you figure out where to set floats and set proper fuel pressure starvation isnt much of a problem.

QUOTE(Bleyseng @ Oct 1 2006, 10:02 AM) *

google this site:https://www-auth.cs.wisc.edu/lists/vfr/2001-December/msg01190.shtml

This is the best quote:

Fuel injection can also correct itself for altitude, load and temperature variations. Something a carb never has been good at. Think of fuel injection as an Einstein sitting around with a great computer calculating moment to moment your precise fuel needs. Carburators on the other hand, are some dumb redneck sitting in his easy chair at the top of your intake track dumping buckets of fuel down the intake and saying "


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/chairfall.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)


So whats wrong with havig a dumb redneck pouring the gas as long as he's getting the job done?
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ClayPerrine
post Oct 1 2006, 05:51 PM
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Mechanical Fuel Injection

300PSI sequential fuel injection, corrected for altitute and load, Individual runners..... and NO COMPUTER.......


And that Heavenly Scream at 6 grand!!!


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Sammy
post Oct 1 2006, 06:06 PM
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Sooooo, if you want to have a good running, efficient, reliable car, run FI.
If you want to run around a parking lot dodging cones while making the vroom vroom noises, run carbs (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Carburetors have an idle circuit, a main circuit, and a transition circuit which is nothing more that an overlap of the idle and main.
that means that if it is set up perfectly, it can meter the air/fuel ratio perfectly during three places in the RPM range. the rest is a compromise where it's close enuogh.
Fuel injection has an unlimited number of circuits and it adjusts the metering constantly. It is more accurate.
Now, the real point when talking about power isn't the a/f ratio, it's about letting the engine breath with the least amount of intake restriction and the most accurate fuel metering. Stock D-jet is choked down a little and restrictive, but it is good enough for stock cams.
Carbs only make more power because they are less restrictive at higher rpm, but the only time you can benefit from the lower restriction is if you have hotter cams that will let the engine spin higher.

The absolute best set up (besides turbocharging) would be hotter cams and individual throttle bodies with a programmable EFI system.

Of course this whole debate about which gives you more power is only for the normally aspirated (handicapt) folks among us (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
If you have a turbo, you don't have to argue about what will give you that additional 5 hp (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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