I just bought a 1976 914 and am thinking about replacing the
FI with carbs. Is this a mistake?

DON
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1976 914
1969 911S
1981 911SC

Why?

If it ain't broke don't fix it comes to mind...

which part?

You buying a 914 or wanting to convert to carbs??

Why carbs?

Normally they are switched for a "reason"...some good, some not too good...

good reason:

installing bigger cam or changing displacment or mods that will not allow the stock FI to deal with the changes

stock FI is FUBAR'd..missing too many items, or have items that are too costly to replace

owner has an understanding of carbs just wants them...not really a bad thing, you will gain 0 in performance, just some piece-of-mind if they are more to your liking.....

bad reason:

lazy owner/mechanic not wanting to learn how to operate a digital volt meter and spend an hour reading how the stock FI works and how to trouble shoot it

Unless you're doing different cams, pistons, etc. on the inside, there is no reason to change from the fuel injection. It works much better than carbs with today's gas.

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

there are pro's & cons to both. fuel injection is a better system. i prefer webers,but thats not because i dont understand FI i maintained the factory FI on my 73 for 10 years.but being a cheap 914 owner.i came to one conclusion.when my FI failed i usally needed a part for it. and that usually ment spending alittle $$$ for the part.when my webers fail. im not spending any money. just time cleaning or adjusting the system.and if set up correctly you rarely have to do that.
thats my .02
you will start a pretty heated debate with this topic and its because people try to tell you what works for them is "the best and the only way!"
but in all honesty FI is just a better system.
james

get weber look fuel injection!!! Fucking love it.

Yes

It came with FI because its a better fuel management system producing more hp and torque than the carbs.

A stock motor has a FI cam in it so if you install duals it runs but eats more gas and its hp isnt as good.

Those long runners help give the torque that makes the car fun to drive.

Now, IF you change the CAM to a carb cam then the point is moot and install the carbs.

If you have this dread of getting stuck by the side of the road because of a failed FI part, I have been driving mine for 10 years after re-installing FI without ANY FI parts failing nor broken down because of the FI. Other stuff sure, throttle cables, running outta gas.....

Not that this is the only truth because everyone has had different experiences

with their 914's. FI is great, a bit tempermental but it works very well with the

stock cam and displacement, and great MPG. That said I will add that my first

build was a 1911cc with a cam ground for carb's. The lowend torque and HP

that I got from those few things made it a whole new car. I personally would

not go back to FI but I will never get rid of this car. If you plan on reselling

your car I would leave the FI on, you'll have better resale value.

No, its the only truth.



The big IFis that changing the cam makes it a whole nuther ballgame.


now, if its just a bolt on hp power by the seat of the pants I want carbs because, do it.





The stock FI has so far a hp ceiling of 'bout 120hp as I keep bouncing off it.

as said above...

basically stockish motors with FI cams will be more drivable, and make decent power.

STOCK FI cannot keep up with larger cams etc.. and thats is why carbs are used, to make more power...

Tunable aftermarket (PEFI) FI is even superior to carbs.. they can go on the same motor, and make same peak power as carbs, but will most likely add drivability....

stock motor. leave the FI
hot rod = carbs or PEFI

Why is everyone talking about replacing cams, the guy wants to know which system is better. Check out this site.

http://members.rennlist.com/pbanders/carbs.htm

uh because it is relavent.

Stock cam = stock FI
BIG cam = carbs or PEFI

Paul B Anders figured out Djet thats for sure.... great site and info and a must read for 914 Owners.

I think that most of the modern EFI, SDS, MS, Haltech beat Djet hands down plus they can handle wilder cams. My Question is "How Much Wilder of a Cam"?




This also comes back to the question of "What are you trying to acomplish with installing dual carbs.?"

Jake is taking type4 motors to new hp levels with EFI and other parts, wow, 200hp out of a 2270cc motor...

You don't need to replace the cam to get good gas mileage.
Just replace the injestion with dual solex's and you get better than 35 MPG.
Linda got 49.16 mpg from Parker Az to Huntington Beach (295 miles and 6 gal of gas). Mileage is not an issue. Power is. Linda can keep up but suffers on the incline.
:PERMAGRIN: Joe

We've had this discussion many times. With anger usually coming soon.

I've asked this question in the last few with no answers that I can remember.

One of the stock offerings was a dual single barrel carb set-up ( Solex ).
Was there a different cam used? What are the lift and duration specs used in the various stock factory motors?


KT

At the last WCC in Portland, I drove around in Ferg's stock 1.7 with dual Solex's or ??? ....car ran great...made me want to buy it and drive it home....

I'm with you Trekkor. I'd like to build a 2270 with dual singles and low compression and see how it would be for MPG. But the cam will make all the differance.
:PERMAGRIN: Joe

only in europe.
only on the 1.8L.
only in '74/'75.
only with much higher compression than *any* other T4 motor for the 914.

apples and oranges as far as i'm concerned ...


- will your stock engine run with carbs? sure it will ...
- will a stock engine with a stock FI system that is in good working order run better than a stock engine with carbs? you bet ...


if you don't mind dealing with:

- cold start problems on those chilly spring/summer/fall/winter mornings
- dropping idle after a spirited run
- clogging idle jets
- rejetting on the side of the road on your trip to the mountains (or sea, depending on where you live)
- headaches on long runs from those "great" sounding carbs

then carbs are the way to go for you ...


Andy

I have to admit that sometimes having a car with simple carbs and mechanical points seems to have a certain simplicity that I really like....

My first two 914's ( I consider the SIX conversion the third ) both had F.I., l-jet an d-jet repectively.

The l-jet killed me, and believe me, I tried *everything*. I wanted to go to Webers but that was over ten years ago and smog inspections were still required on a '75.
Sold that.

The current car had the d-jet 2.0 FOUR and ran fantastic, all the time.
I had no reason to change anyting except the points and condensor to Pertronix.

All that being said. I love my triple Webers.
Carbs are more fun and our cars are about fun.




KT

It works for me. (Linda Thomas Robert) Get to use thier cars.
:PERMAGRIN: Joe

induction simple - yes
ignition simple - noooooooooooo

i love my carbs... but hate points...and bosch blue coils

Up down high low works for me too.

you forgot the IMHO in your sentence ...

carbs are 1950s technology that belongs in 1950s cars ...

there's nothing like a good working fuel-injection system.
and if you really have to have intake noise drowning you from behind, you can always put a K&N airfilter on your FI engine ...

IMHO
Andy

enough to drive without ear-plugs ???

i didn't think so ...
Andy

let it warm up

blip throttle

5 minute fix

prolly not

wear a helmet





KT

i always had the same intake noise... even when the car was stock in every other regard...

earplugs are a result of the following:
Header
Solid engine and trans mounts - vibration = loud
no sound deading....
no rain tray

always had carbs on it... ear plugs only became a recent addition with the header and mounts....

oooh hoo hoo...






Now I'm really confused






KT

Andy: I really do enjoy the sound of the carbs and Beauty's stero is on the blink. You know I been enjoying it lately. Sometimes on long downhills when you step back on the throtel your suprised by the tone. I love it.
:PERMAGRIN: Joe

technology didnt change tho trekk

and carbs were waaaay earlier than that andy...

was the 1909 model T injected? nope.. LOL

jeep XJ's had carbs up intil 1990 i think

I don't have an opinion but I am sure angry! Oh wait... Yeh, I don't really care either way. However, if you buy carbs you don't need you keep the economy moving.

Had them dual Solexes on my 72 bus and fought those damn clogged jets until I put of single Weber on it. That was worster

fought it until I got sick of it and sold it.


Bought my 914 with dual Dells and fought that too. No chokes, clogged jets for a year and then located a complete FI set up to put back on. I remembered the days when 914's were new and wow, it was just like yesterday....

Yeah Aaron, I too loved the sound of the dual carbs....until I took a trip and then I cursed the loud noise right behind my head.


Whatever ya like, carbs or FI.. drive it like ya stole it.

yes, but it took until the 50s to perfect them. they haven't evolved since.
you don't fix your car using stonetools, do you?



and for trekkors confusion, the carbs on the '74/'75 euro models were not offered because they were superior, they were offered because, like some of you, some of porsches customers had trouble getting their mind out of the automotive stone age.


and joe, i like the sound of my car very much as well. and i have FI.
i have had a warmed over 2.0L with dual webers in my car.
honestly, my current FI motor sounds at least as good. no rain-tray and GT lid does wonders for "sound". no need for carbs ...

Andy

this is fun

barry grant begs to differ.... (demon carbs)

but yeah... FI or Carbs - drive the wheels off of it!

How do you fix perfection.

by coming up with superior technology ...

like electronic fuel injection ...
Andy

Carbs kick as$ as long as you are driving full throttle. That's pretty much how I drive so they work great for me! If I wanted to do a sissy highway drive at consistently legal speeds I'd likely go with FI. Now that I think about it modern technology is for sissies.

Love FI, but have never had any real problems. Guess if it craps out and parts not available will go to carbs.

Ayup, that's the way we do it


KT

Modern FI is the shiznit... and for intake noise, run a short intake to the TURBO!!!! It Wails like a banshee anytime it's building boost (above 1600rpmish @ WOT)

BJH

Up in the NW, we always kick the guys asses with carbs. They fight to have fuel going around the tight AX courses, while the FI guys have no problems.

I usually drive WOT too so my gas mileage sucks....my redline is 6200.

what??

k

Yeah Babay!

I've gotten a lot of comments on how my car sounds (positive comments), and my exhaust system is a home depot fence post (shout out to trekkor ) plumbed into a bursh. Mine is a 16v modern jap motor too. I don't buy that the only good sound out there is with carbs.

Here is a serious question though: Do carbs somehow offer better fuel atomisation than FI??????

google this site:https://www-auth.cs.wisc.edu/lists/vfr/2001-December/msg01190.shtml

This is the best quote:

Fuel injection can also correct itself for altitude, load and temperature variations. Something a carb never has been good at. Think of fuel injection as an Einstein sitting around with a great computer calculating moment to moment your precise fuel needs. Carburators on the other hand, are some dumb redneck sitting in his easy chair at the top of your intake track dumping buckets of fuel down the intake and saying "

FYI:

The local ax hot shoe that basically wins *everytime* he runs against a field of 100+, and two other heavies, run carbs.

A well tuned carbed car will run very well, too.

Correct me I'm wrong, but I believe Terry Zaconne has driven to *every* Porsche Parade since he bought his '67 911.
He's alway's been a top five-ten in the seveal hundred of a/x's he's entered.


KT

dave ellison and eric fry are absolutely pathetic as they get their always asses kicked, whilst fighting to get fuel in their carbs.

k