How do we beat TomP at Parade 07 ? Options

[kdfoust]

Hey Brad:

I know a couple of SCCA nat champs and pro solo that have crossed over to PCA. One of them is used to putting brut power (Camero, Corvette, Turbo) to good use. The other takes an "under powered" (early 911) car and puts the smackdown on entire fields and looks completely calm doing it.

If this gets serious we can have a word with them to see if they're interested. They both might have their own ideas already though...

Later,
Kevin

[Brad Roberts]

Josh,

I work with James Gunn Wilkerson down here quite a bit on setups. He also helped me understand the Boxsters. He used to run one.

The reason I bring all this up.. I'm finishing a 2316 Raby combo this weekend and the owner of the engine asked me about beating TomP. I thought about it for a moment and thought I would run it past the "group".

Whomever drives.. I'll be the tire warmer... LOL

Tom's car is OLD SCHOOL (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap56.gif) I love it!! I promise he will have trouble with the semi rough surface here at Qualcomm. You have to show up with something soft in the tire arena to play down here. It is much like Candlestick when it comes to surface erosion and the such.

They like long high speed area's with some smallish SCCA stuff thrown in near the finish to slow cars down.


B

[Brad Roberts]

My money would be on Stacey Reitmer..LOL

Kevin,

we will chat the next time you are down. I'll try to put a plan together soon and see if I can drum up the funds to finish the car nicely. Right now it is a raggedy roller with 70% of what we need in place. The biggest hurdle is some of the fab work I need to do for the floors/shifter/seat mounting. Suspension I can handle and mounting of the body work. I cant paint.. so I need to round up a painter willing to make it look nice.

This car was destined to be a "914Club" AutoX car. Something we could let anyone drive on any given weekend. Open cockpit style.. Ginther windscreen. Luckily all the cage work is done. I'll have to add some smallish tubes for the aluminum floor section.


B

[Randal]

OK. The chassis has 10's and 12's right now. I'll stick with those.

200hp T4 "check"

Even if I have to "borrow" an engine for the event.. LOL

I have the advantage of testing on the surface 8-10 times before Parade comes to town.

It will weigh 1600lbs NO problem (even if I have to fly Paul "Ury" in for some guidance)..LOL

I cant afford to run a "Hot" 3.6

I can have the chassis ready for powder coat in a few weeks...

B

What do you mean Brad, "200hp T4 "check"

"Might have to borrow...."

You might be earning your PHD in Cavalier here, but if anyone can pull it off it's probably you.

[J P Stein]

Well, golly, Brad, guess who comes to check out the Parade course, has the local club run a serise of various cars around it... and gives advice.... since they have veto over the local club's layout it's wise to listen..... Not safe, too fast, yada.....Then makes a map to insure it's set up per the approved plan come Parade time.

When you figure that out, tell me about any advantage you have. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[john rogers]

Hummm, who was that guy that won TTOD last time the parade was in San Diego in a 911 with a big motor? He was an SCCA champ too if I remember correctly, ran Goodyear canti-slicks, etc? The course at the "Q" will probably be a fast/horse power type of course and might even favor someone like James Gunn-Wilkinson in a prepared GT2 over a 914 or maybe the Fordhall's. If ANYONE is to get ready, they need to run with the SCCA from now on to get ready for the "3 runs per day" format instead of lots of laps to get ready!

[Randal]

Hummm, who was that guy that won TTOD last time the parade was in San Diego in a 911 with a big motor? He was an SCCA champ too if I remember correctly, ran Goodyear canti-slicks, etc? The course at the "Q" will probably be a fast/horse power type of course and might even favor someone like James Gunn-Wilkinson in a prepared GT2 over a 914 or maybe the Fordhall's. If ANYONE is to get ready, they need to run with the SCCA from now on to get ready for the "3 runs per day" format instead of lots of laps to get ready!

Probably Jim Hayes running a 911 with a Matt Lawrence motor. Very fast car that handles and he could drive.

He was also an SCCA champ.

I have all his wheels.

[jhadler]

My money would be on Stacey Reitmer..LOL

Stacey is one quick shoe herself, I wouldn't laugh too much... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Funny story though... Shortly after I bought my 914, I went to an SCCA autox school to try and get familiar with the car around the cones. Wound up with Michelle Reitmier as my instructor. Why not? She's a National Champ in a 914 as well...So, here I am, driving my newly acquired Porsche around as close to the limit as I can, and here's a georgous, talented, racecar driving, blonde sitting next to me shouting out "faster! drive faster!"... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

-Josh2

[URY914]

It will weigh 1600lbs NO problem (even if I have to fly Paul "Ury" in for some guidance)..LOL

B

I'll let you use my car. Do whatever you want with it. I'll stick it in a box and FedX it to you on Monday. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

You could get your car to under 1500 pounds pretty easy.

[ConeDodger]

3.4 (5?)L twin plug, hi butterfly RSR MFI......show up with 200 hp & you'll be down 100 hp minimum. Looking the car over, there is nothing truely trick...WAG 1700-1900 lbs)...but it's damn fast and Tom has been driving it for years. He took to the high speed course at PIR like a duck to water. You'd better get an SCCA National champ (and a member of the PCA) that can do his magic within 3 runs cold...cause Tom can. One fella came close to him in a late 911 racin' vehical.......but this ain't horse shoes (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I was thinkin that a cup car would blow everyone into the weeds on that PIR course (NO tight stuff)......I didn't see any Mods run...I was busy goin' sideways. & scratchin' my haid between runs.(IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

I know Tom is over 300HP and a joy to watch drive. The car is a handful on tight courses. He and Steve N duke it out quite regularly and even with his 130 or 140HP Steve takes his share of the cake.
Tom tells me he doesn't know too much about the cars build sheet so to speak. He bought it that way. I have heard that story before but he seems sincere about it. Sandy is no slouch in the car either.

[J P Stein]

I know Tom is over 300HP and a joy to watch drive. The car is a handful on tight courses. He and Steve N duke it out quite regularly and even with his 130 or 140HP Steve takes his share of the cake.
Tom tells me he doesn't know too much about the cars build sheet so to speak. He bought it that way. I have heard that story before but he seems sincere about it. Sandy is no slouch in the car either.

That's about the same as he told me, as I recall.
He said that these days the MFI is worth more than the whole car (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
I think he said the engine is an RSR motor and that it had been freshened a few years back.....not sure about that, I was havin' a tough week.

Steve is a real gud driver and I can see his car is damn well developed. On a tight course I can see him giving anyone fits. He's also gud on the first 3 runs.....which use as a benchmark. If you go back & look at results from the various regions, Provasi shows his ability there.

[ConeDodger]

I know Tom is over 300HP and a joy to watch drive. The car is a handful on tight courses. He and Steve N duke it out quite regularly and even with his 130 or 140HP Steve takes his share of the cake.
Tom tells me he doesn't know too much about the cars build sheet so to speak. He bought it that way. I have heard that story before but he seems sincere about it. Sandy is no slouch in the car either.

That's about the same as he told me, as I recall.
He said that these days the MFI is worth more than the whole car (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
I think he said the engine is an RSR motor and that it had been freshened a few years back.....not sure about that, I was havin' a tough week.

Steve is a real gud driver and I can see his car is damn well developed. On a tight course I can see him giving anyone fits. He's also gud on the first 3 runs.....which use as a benchmark. If you go back & look at results from the various regions, Provasi shows his ability there.

It should be interesting. I already have my hotel room reserved and I am deciding which car to bring down. I just bought an '84 taildragger that looks showroom new in and out. 55K miles.

It isn't just tight courses that Steve gives fits on. Unless you really let the big motors use their legs he is still right there.

JP you remember last year when you came down for the Shriner's event? Steve beat all but one of the Corvettes and a couple of them were National Champions. Even then the guy only beat him by a couple hundredths. This was a pretty open course designed by SCCA guys who worship the Corvette and tolerate us others to fill their coffers...

Below is Steve's best time and here he is staged next to EJ Fontaine. This was a pretty open course and even EJ with his six couldn't catch Steve.

[grantsfo]

Put a 200 HP T4 in Andrew B's Smurf car. He is capable of beating Tom.

[J P Stein]

Put a 200 HP T4 in Andrew B's Smurf car. He is capable of beating Tom.

I assume you've found this stuff ain't as easy as it seems.
A car being "capable" and actually doing it are two different things.

Robby:
I remember being 2nd fastest 914 at the Shriners event. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Steve kilt me.
That course was not a high speed course. The turns at this last Parade were faster than the longest straight at Mather.....top end of 3rd gear at the Parade.
Comparing the 2, Mather was tight. Not to denigrate Steve's efforts there, but he was way off Tom's pace. A 59 to a 54 IIRC. Steve made up for it by blowing us all into the weeds at the "After Parade AX".....a tight course....ORPCA style....short on cones but tricky. You'da liked it.

[ConeDodger]

Put a 200 HP T4 in Andrew B's Smurf car. He is capable of beating Tom.

I assume you've found this stuff ain't as easy as it seems.
A car being "capable" and actually doing it are two different things.

Robby:
I remember being 2nd fastest 914 at the Shriners event. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Steve kilt me.
That course was not a high speed course. The turns at this last Parade were faster than the longest straight at Mather.....top end of 3rd gear at the Parade.
Comparing the 2, Mather was tight. Not to denigrate Steve's efforts there, but he was way off Tom's pace. A 59 to a 54 IIRC. Steve made up for it by blowing us all into the weeds at the "After Parade AX".....a tight course....ORPCA style....short on cones but tricky. You'da liked it.

I think I would have loved it... I once designed a course that used only enough cones to fit in the back and passenger side of my 240Z because the guy who was supposed to haul equipment flaked. It was GREAT!
Checking the results you were the second fastest teener. I didn't mean to imply EJ was faster I just used him as a reference as I have ridden in the car and know how fast it is. Yours I have only seen at the start finish...
A lot of these large event courses tend to be mini-grand prix courses. I guess they feel they need to soothe the 911 crowd or sumpin... That works to Tom P's advantage.
I know what you mean about Steve and the taste of weeds. After I put in times good enough to be 5th overall with the BB Racer/Submarine at its first autocross with me on those nasty old Kumhos that Jim had, Steve got in the car and with my fat ass in the P-Seat he put in a time a second faster than my best. Take away the passenger and that is about a two second improvement on my time in my own car when he had never driven it... I was in awe.

[grantsfo]

I assume you've found this stuff ain't as easy as it seems.
A car being "capable" and actually doing it are two different things.

Actually I find it easier than it seems most of the time. I'm always overwhelmed when I see all those cones. When I get out and start driving I somehow put everything together.

Andrew B has actually beaten Tom P' times on actual AX courses in Nor Cal. The Parade event was more like a short road course! So 200 HP would likely even playing field for posuer cross on a road course. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

But come on JP, AX rates up there with amature bowling if you take it too seriously. Why anyone would want to build a PCA Parade winning car is sort of pointless to me. Yeah you can do it, but why?

[john rogers]

At the 2000 parade in Sacramento one of the San Diego members spend huge amounts of time and money on things like big HP, close ratio gear box, GT limited slip, light weight and all. In the big run he actually had TTOD nailed but got a cone and it was said it was from some ground effects, not actually hitting it, BUT since they only had two or three workers for the whole, huge course, the cone counted! No TTOD. It is the driver.

[J P Stein]

Actually I find it easier than it seems most of the time. I'm always overwhelmed when I see all those cones. When I get out and start driving I somehow put everything together.

Andrew B has actually beaten Tom P' times on actual AX courses in Nor Cal. The Parade event was more like a short road course! So 200 HP would likely even playing field for posuer cross on a road course. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

But come on JP, AX rates up there with amature bowling if you take it too seriously. Why anyone would want to build a PCA Parade winning car is sort of pointless to me. Yeah you can do it, but why?

Look at the first 3 runs. IIRC, Provasi had everybody by 2 sec.

As for finding it easy. It is....right till ya get up into the top end of the field. If you can get within .5 sec of Andrew or Steve, then come back & tell me how easy it is.
Then go to a National Tour event & do it in 3 runs.

Serious? The guy that bought the Wayne Baker car ...Mistak(sp?)... laid out a Parade course on his own dime ...SD Parade I think, set up his trans for a top speed of over 130 mph and appropioate gears below and still didn't win. He took out the 4 & dropped in a 3.6L. I think that is what John is talking about.

Top tier SCCA guys are as serious as a heart attack.... that's why they are top tier. Top line Pro Solo make gud money at it.

Why?....why not?....you got sumthin' better to do? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Chris Hamilton]

We may head down if we have the time, and if we are allowed the nitrous bottle. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[nebreitling]

Top line Pro Solo make gud money at it.

really? last time i looked, it seemed that at best they would break even on their travel costs and get a set of tires.