New pan.....finish? Options

[1970 Neun vierzehn]

It's looking positive for a full pan replacement. After the new galvanized pieces are welded in, how should the bottom of a '70/4 be finished?

The shop is advising primer on top of pan with a resilient black finish on top of that.
The car is Canary yellow, so I don't think an all yellow finish on the bottom and wheel wheels is going to look too good. The car was delivered with the typical midwestern "rust protection" method of an application of black, semi-soft, tar-like material that in places is still intact!. You can scrape parts of it off, and find yellow paint underneath. Unlike its very early existence, this car will never see salt saturated roads again. I think some road debris, water penetration protection is warranted, but what color(if any), finish, application? Suggestions are very much welcomed.

[Bleyseng]

all cars were a paint color everywhere. The dealers sprayed the undercoating on for a tidy fee (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

[tod914]

Unless you plan on having the rest of undercoating removed from the car to reveal the original finish, paint it body color then body shutz it to match the rest of the underneath.

[Pat Garvey]

Unless you plan on having the rest of undercoating removed from the car to reveal the original finish, paint it body color then body shutz it to match the rest of the underneath.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
Since Paul is my friend, he would expect me to say this, but.........

I wouldn't stop there. I'd make certain as much of the original, dried out asphalt-based compound that was even SLIGHTLY loose was chipped off & "shutz'd" also. This stiff is ancient & a small crack can absorb moisture underneath & start rusting later. If nothing else, I'd put the car on a lift & rub a solvent into the old stuff to re-energize it.

BTW group - he's re-doing this car correctly. Hope he takes lotsa pics during the progress. THIS could be a PCA Parade winner when it's finished. Of course, he'll have my help, since I'll be moving back to Cincinnati next year. I've also built up a pretty nice supply of spares he doesn'y even know about to help. Some of them are already being restored. What are friends for?

[IronHillRestorations]

If originality is important, I'd skip the rocker shutz. If this is a concours car then scratches shouldn't be an issue.

I hate the over use of rocker shutz. I've seen cars that have it in the front and rear trunks, in the engine bay, in the wheel houses, YUCK! But that's my personal opinion. I like smooth shiney paint.

[tod914]

I just meant on the bottom/roadside area of the pan Perry.

[IronHillRestorations]

Yea, me too Tod. From my experience a restored car will never see the elements and use that got it in the condition to require pan replacement.

Good primer, good seam sealer, and good paint should do just fine.

[Pat Garvey]

Yea, me too Tod. From my experience a restored car will never see the elements and use that got it in the condition to require pan replacement.

Good primer, good seam sealer, and good paint should do just fine.

I think you've missed my point (& that of 1970 Neun Vierzhen). This car is going to have an expensive FULL restoration from a well-known shop in the Cleveland area. It WILL be a concours restoration of an extremely nice 914, but with some age problems. The resto is going to cost major bucks!

Like almost all surviving midest cars, this wast rustproofed from the start. Yes, it would be perfect to have a full yellow bottom, but at what additional cost? Pan is the only thing being replaced. Rest of car is solid. Exterior to be stripped to bare & any flaws fixed. The new pan will be galvanized & painted, but the undersides of the fenders will still contain rustproofing. Additional cost of removing all that, prepping & respraying would probably run the total up another 2-3K.

Since he plans to continue driving the car & will ultimately be caught in the rain, or on a gravel road, I recommend Shutz'ing the belly pan & rubbing some solvent into the rest of the "coated" areas to re-activate it. This stuff has protected the car for 35+ years & only needs to be softened up to continue doing its job.

The West World may think that the East World is out of it for having this stuff on our cars, but we have rain, salt & sand to deal with & this stuff has saved many a 914.

If you haven't lived with one of these rust-prone babies for 30+ years in the East of Rust belt, you can't understand. This is one area we give up to originality.

Iron oxide dust on the garage floor didn't come from the factory.

[tod914]

I misunderstood then Pat. I was under the assumption it was just the front pan being replaced and the rest would remain as is. Sounds likes Pery's suggestion is the way to go.

[1970 Neun vierzehn]

I am appreciative of all the input.

My current thinking has primer over pan. L11E(Canary yellow) over primer. And some kind of clear, pebble finish over the yellow paint, similar to what VW has put on the rocker areas of my late model GTi. I am concerned, however, of the durability of that in light of road debris, etc. that might be encountered when driving. Road construction seems to be a "given" no matter whether it's local or of the intercity variety when traveling. The errant stone, small rock, tree branch, lumber and assorted detritus seem to have a natural affinity for cars that you're trying to be especially careful with.

[IronHillRestorations]

If total originality is not an issue, then you have a little latitude. If you want more chip protection than just paint I would use rocker shutz.

What I'd due is spray the bare metal with self etching primer, followed by non sanding primer, followed by rocker shutz dyed to match the paint (IIRC you can add up to 10% of paint to dye to match color). Then topcoat with paint. Some paint shops add flex agent to promote resistance to chips.

Best bet is to talk with the restoration shop that is doing the work and see what products they use. They are doing the work, and will have to stand behind it, so to a certain extent you have to go with what they normally use.

[Pat Garvey]

I am appreciative of all the input.

My current thinking has primer over pan. L11E(Canary yellow) over primer. And some kind of clear, pebble finish over the yellow paint, similar to what VW has put on the rocker areas of my late model GTi. I am concerned, however, of the durability of that in light of road debris, etc. that might be encountered when driving. Road construction seems to be a "given" no matter whether it's local or of the intercity variety when traveling. The errant stone, small rock, tree branch, lumber and assorted detritus seem to have a natural affinity for cars that you're trying to be especially careful with.

And what WILL you do with the fender wells, whish are black. Will those be blasted & resparayed L11E? If not, you'll have a hodgepodge belly.

Forget about what VW uses on contemporary cars - this is a classic! Would you put BBS's on 250 GTO because they're stronger? I doubt it.

You're spending a lot of money & can get it back if you keep it as original as you can. Sure, the Kallefornia guys didn't need rustproofing, but the rest of the world did & most got it whether they wanted it or not. Keep it consistent underneath & you have a winner.

My 2 cents, but you all KNOW I am opinionated!
PG

[davep]

Basically, the original finish is paint over the undercoating. That is what I would do.

[1970 Neun vierzehn]

Basically, the original finish is paint over the undercoating. That is what I would do.

Dave,
Unless I missed the obvious, there is no undercoating on the pan 'cept the black stuff (undercoat, rust proofing) that the delivering dealer applied. When I remove that, I find yellow paint. There does not appear to be anything under that.

So far, I'm inclined to go w/9146986s(Perry's) suggestion...primer, tinted schutz, yellow top coat. That leaves the dilemma of what Pat G referenced....solid, but black coated wheelwells (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

[Pat Garvey]

Basically, the original finish is paint over the undercoating. That is what I would do.

Dave,
Unless I missed the obvious, there is no undercoating on the pan 'cept the black stuff (undercoat, rust proofing) that the delivering dealer applied. When I remove that, I find yellow paint. There does not appear to be anything under that.

So far, I'm inclined to go w/9146986s(Perry's) suggestion...primer, tinted schutz, yellow top coat. That leaves the dilemma of what Pat G referenced....solid, but black coated wheelwells (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

Tinted Shutz? Is is Shutz or paint. I'm confoosed!? How do they make it L11E? Tinted? How do you tint something that's black?

"there is no undercoating on the pan 'cept the black stuff (undercoat, rust proofing) that the delivering dealer applied" Ummm...ain't this rustproofing?

I'm missing something here, and I think we're going to the extreme (yep, I said that). West coast - no rustproofing (usually). East of the Mississippi, yep, rustproofed.

They were all painted body color before they were rustproofed. i.e.: they all had Shutz applied, then painted, then ...... whatever the dealer did!

What's the point here?

[IronHillRestorations]

3M Rocker Shutz is tan, not black, and can be tinted so that if you get a paint chip you don't see tan.

3M did not make Rocker Shutz until the 80's, and it is not undercoating. It is applied prior to paint.

[davep]

Okay, I assumed too much. Almost every car I have stripped has the PVC (M640
option) undercoating applied to the bare metal, then body color paint was sprayed over that. So, I'd guess that all Canadian market cars got the PVC undercoat as a mandatory option. The PVC was applied to the underbody before painting. Obviously the PVC undercoating was paintable.

Body Shutz is an undercoating similar to the original PVC undercoating. It does add weight, and it is a good sound deadener. In many ways the undercoating is better than the rustproofing the dealers applied. The rustproofing was ugly, attracted dirt and didn't last as long. It is so nice to see bright clean paint on the underside of a car.

I guess we need to see just what cars came with the M640 option. It must not have been as universal as I previously thought.

[1970 Neun vierzehn]

Here we go. You're looking at the pan in the area below the pedal cluster. In 1984, the mc leaked, and after disassembling and thoroughly cleaning the pedal cluster, installing new bushings and an new mc, I still had a mess on the bottom side of the car. Everyone knows the effects of brake fluid, so after wirebrushing, scraping and flushing the wrinkled paint and rustproofing/undercoat/tar substance, I applied a rust inhibitor primer, over which I painted Canary yellow paint.

The purpose here is to show that the "black stuff" (whatever it is/was), was applied over yellow paint on the pan and in the wheel wheels as well. I'm of the opinion of Pat that the dealer, rather than the mfg, the port(?) or the distributor(?) applied this. I'd like yellow paint on the pan, but I also want something that will be resiliant to the detritus from the road and will not contain moisture from the occasional shower the car may encounter.

[Pat Garvey]

3M Rocker Shutz is tan, not black, and can be tinted so that if you get a paint chip you don't see tan.

3M did not make Rocker Shutz until the 80's, and it is not undercoating. It is applied prior to paint.

OK, I have NO idea what rocker shutz is. Have used Body Shutz bunches of times, but it is black & paintable. Sprays on w/a low pressure nozzle ( still have mine from the 70's), dries in about 24 hours for painting.

Have never seen the brown stuff.

You can also get Body Shutz (3M) in rattlle cans for touch up - works great.