 The Official Spec Boxster Build, 914Club Style! |
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| Brad Roberts |
 Nov 7 2006, 12:56 PM
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#241
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914 Freak!  Group: Members Posts: 19,148 Joined: 23-December 02 Member No.: 8 Region Association: None  |
QUOTE Brad's butt would toss the chassis off balance and effect the race settings. Sorry Brad but your as tall as I am, I know I would toss that car into a 235 pound weight penality in all the wrong places. In the car!!!!!! Now I do take passengers on auto-x runs, if the course is mostly right handers, I really need to get mine to the scales. good luck guys, this is more fun than I am allowed to have. I dont mind instructing, but Bill is past my instruction. SCCA never rides with you. They follow you or drive in front of you. I have never understood the "passenger" thing. It sucks for low powered cars. Everyone wants to ride with me in 2.0 914's..lol I find it difficult to explain that EVERTHING will change when I get out of the car. Braking points.. turn in.. throttle steer... Not a fan of "passengers" B |
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| nine14cats |
Nov 11 2006, 10:05 AM
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#242
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Bill Pickering -- 914-6 GT aka....Leeloo Group: Members Posts: 2,618 Joined: 10-February 03 From: Campbell, CA Member No.: 287 Region Association: None |
My 2nd pass of dyno results are in. This was where we took off the stock muffler and bolted on a modded muffler from Sportech, a local shop here in Campbell, CA. The interior baffling has being redesigned for better flow and the size of the outlet opening changed.
Our results show the mods were very successful for the stock 2.5L motor. While peak HP is up 1 HP, the 2300 to 6000 RPM rev range shows a very flat HP and TQ curve with most of the range showing 4 to 11.8 HP improvement. Torque is up considerably as well. We made a significant improvement in the meat of the driveable power band. Here are the HP numbers: Attached image(s) 
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| nine14cats |
Nov 11 2006, 10:05 AM
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#243
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Bill Pickering -- 914-6 GT aka....Leeloo Group: Members Posts: 2,618 Joined: 10-February 03 From: Campbell, CA Member No.: 287 Region Association: None |
Here are the Torque numbers:
Attached image(s) 
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| nine14cats |
Nov 11 2006, 10:08 AM
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#244
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Bill Pickering -- 914-6 GT aka....Leeloo Group: Members Posts: 2,618 Joined: 10-February 03 From: Campbell, CA Member No.: 287 Region Association: None |
Here is the Dyno Chart:
Attached image(s) 
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| nine14cats |
Nov 11 2006, 10:18 AM
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#245
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Bill Pickering -- 914-6 GT aka....Leeloo Group: Members Posts: 2,618 Joined: 10-February 03 From: Campbell, CA Member No.: 287 Region Association: None |
What was interesting is that I pulled dyno runs on the car with new muffler with the snorkel on the airbox on and with it off. Supposedly this makes the engine breath better. While the intake sound is much nicer, there was NO DIFFERENCE in performance.
Some of the aftermarket companies claim an 8-10 HP improvement with an airbox mod or a replacement. A mod seems to be the only way as you would need to change the airbox to promote different airflow characteristics. Probably combined with a chip mod. Overall I'm extremely happy with the muffler mod! Bill P. |
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| Trekkor |
Nov 11 2006, 10:36 AM
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#246
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I do things... Group: Members Posts: 7,809 Joined: 2-December 03 From: Napa, Ca Member No.: 1,413 Region Association: Northern California |
I'll try to get some video of you on the track.
Nice work on the power upgrade. KT |
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| DanT |
Nov 11 2006, 10:37 AM
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#247
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Going back to the Dark Side! Group: Members Posts: 4,300 Joined: 4-October 04 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 2,880 Region Association: None |
Bill,
I am impressed....I didn't think it would make that big of a difference... Pretty good for just gutting and a little change in the outlet size... I guess Mark may be on to something (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Glad I convinced him to give it a try....he has been doing the same thing to 911 mufflers for years....another one of those tricks taught to him by the "original" Ken.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Some of those old racer's tricks still work evidently. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap56.gif) |
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| nine14cats |
Nov 11 2006, 10:59 AM
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#248
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Bill Pickering -- 914-6 GT aka....Leeloo Group: Members Posts: 2,618 Joined: 10-February 03 From: Campbell, CA Member No.: 287 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Dan (Almaden Valley) @ Nov 11 2006, 08:37 AM)  Bill, I am impressed....I didn't think it would make that big of a difference... Pretty good for just gutting and a little change in the outlet size... I guess Mark may be on to something (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Glad I convinced him to give it a try....he has been doing the same thing to 911 mufflers for years....another one of those tricks taught to him by the "original" Ken.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Some of those old racer's tricks still work evidently. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap56.gif) Next up is to take a dB reading of the muffler. It would be great to have it pass Laguna. Also I'm looking at headers. Surprisingly not much data out there on independant dyno tests. It seems like headers, intake box mod and a chip would yield decent gains. But it's pricey.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/barf.gif) Bill P. |
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| DanT |
Nov 11 2006, 11:26 AM
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#249
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Going back to the Dark Side! Group: Members Posts: 4,300 Joined: 4-October 04 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 2,880 Region Association: None |
Yes, you need to weigh the HP/torque gains against the cost...but with a 2.5 there really aren't any other options.
From what I have read...headers are the next step along with either sport cats or no cats... Seems logical for the headers....have you looked at the stock exhaust manifolds...pretty cheesey.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/barf.gif) the headers would smooth the exhaust flow not to mention opening things up a bit... I would think the headers would move the torque band up higher in the rev range... There is so little out there as far as solid information....on all these mods. Have you contacted evolution motorsports? They have lots of performance mods for the 2.5 and have tested them together...you might want to give them a ring. www.evoms.com Also check Eagleday.com for exhaust components from Schnell, stuff looks pretty nice and is much cheaper than some of the other brands... Headers, cat bypass pipes etc. It is only money Bill (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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| Trekkor |
Nov 11 2006, 01:47 PM
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#250
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I do things... Group: Members Posts: 7,809 Joined: 2-December 03 From: Napa, Ca Member No.: 1,413 Region Association: Northern California |
I keep a Db meter in my camera bag.
I can take some readings for you if you like. KT |
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| Brad Roberts |
Nov 13 2006, 06:51 PM
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#251
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 19,148 Joined: 23-December 02 Member No.: 8 Region Association: None |
I guess nobody recalls the fact that "ZUCS" was sent out of business several years back by Excellence magazine when they did dyno testing on their NEW and IMPROVED intakes for the Boxsters and 996's (and found ZERO gain) ZUCS emerged a year or so later as "EVO".. owned by ... Todd Zuccione...
To this day.. people still think they can out engineer Porsche. All we do is move the power around the RPM range (as Bill found) I beleive a long track muffler and a short track muffler would be the hot ticket. The go kart guy's take 8-10 pipes with them to tracks for tuning. I just dont beleive that Porsche leaves "50hp" on the table for ANY of their cars. No matter how much we play around.. it is still "air in and air out". Unless an increase in displacement is performed or a cam change.. I personally beleive you are playing with maybe 10hp, and half of that is probably to do different atmospheric pressures/humidity/temperature during the pulls. B |
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| nebreitling |
Nov 13 2006, 07:34 PM
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#252
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Member Emeritus Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-March 03 From: San Francisco Member No.: 478 |
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) i agree with the asshole.
(except there's no real need for more than 2 or 3 pipes these days) |
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| grantsfo |
Nov 13 2006, 09:28 PM
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#253
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Arrrrhhhh! Group: Members Posts: 4,327 Joined: 16-March 03 Member No.: 433 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Brad Roberts @ Nov 13 2006, 04:51 PM) I guess nobody recalls the fact that "ZUCS" was sent out of business several years back by Excellence magazine when they did dyno testing on their NEW and IMPROVED intakes for the Boxsters and 996's (and found ZERO gain) ZUCS emerged a year or so later as "EVO".. owned by ... Todd Zuccione... To this day.. people still think they can out engineer Porsche. All we do is move the power around the RPM range (as Bill found) I beleive a long track muffler and a short track muffler would be the hot ticket. The go kart guy's take 8-10 pipes with them to tracks for tuning. I just dont beleive that Porsche leaves "50hp" on the table for ANY of their cars. No matter how much we play around.. it is still "air in and air out". Unless an increase in displacement is performed or a cam change.. I personally beleive you are playing with maybe 10hp, and half of that is probably to do different atmospheric pressures/humidity/temperature during the pulls. B I dont know the Boxster 2.7 is making 30 hp more than it did when I bought mine. Porsche found 30 HP on their original design. I just dont think enough people have looked at the 2.5 to exploit signficant HP. Certainly it will take more than de-snork and freeflow exhaust however. |
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| Brad Roberts |
Nov 14 2006, 11:44 AM
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#254
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 19,148 Joined: 23-December 02 Member No.: 8 Region Association: None |
QUOTE Boxster 2.7 is making 30 hp more than it did when I bought mine. Porsche found 30 HP on their original design. Different heads completely and VarioCam+. I have several engines apart right now learning them (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Picture time! Attached thumbnail(s)  Attached image(s)  
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| grantsfo |
Nov 15 2006, 08:43 AM
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#255
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Arrrrhhhh! Group: Members Posts: 4,327 Joined: 16-March 03 Member No.: 433 Region Association: None |
I'm curious where does this car end up on GGR point scale for AX and TT? I dont think two cars could be closer in terms of capability than this Boxster and my 2.4 914-6.
Power to weight is about the same, displacement is close, wheels are similar proportion, modifications are about the same. Sounds like lap times at Infineon are similar. Bet the Boxster isnt as heavily penalized as the 914 however. |
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| nine14cats |
Nov 15 2006, 09:40 AM
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#256
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Bill Pickering -- 914-6 GT aka....Leeloo Group: Members Posts: 2,618 Joined: 10-February 03 From: Campbell, CA Member No.: 287 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(grantsfo @ Nov 15 2006, 06:43 AM) I'm curious where does this car end up on GGR point scale for AX and TT? I dont think two cars could be closer in terms of capability than this Boxster and my 2.4 914-6. Power to weight is about the same, displacement is close, wheels are similar proportion, modifications are about the same. Sounds like lap times at Infineon are similar. Bet the Boxster isnt as heavily penalized as the 914 however. As it sits it is TT8 and AX5. Could be AX6 next year if the Boxster amendments of Bill Dally's goes through. Power to weight suggests TT9 but the mods point it out into TT8. If I add even 1 more point it goes to TT7, so the next mods need to be HP. Grant, where do you land in the points scale? Bill P. |
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| Trekkor |
Nov 15 2006, 11:17 AM
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#257
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I do things... Group: Members Posts: 7,809 Joined: 2-December 03 From: Napa, Ca Member No.: 1,413 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE As it sits it is TT8 and AX5 Me, too!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/boldblue.gif) I mean...me, too (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) This shows the points system is wrong on every level. No matter... KT |
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| Brad Roberts |
Nov 15 2006, 11:39 AM
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#258
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 19,148 Joined: 23-December 02 Member No.: 8 Region Association: None |
I can see the Boxster now with Cherry bombs hanging out the back..LOL
I beleive the cars would be VERY equal in their current config. The Boxster doesnt spin 7k RPM and the gearing basically SUCKS. B |
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| nine14cats |
Nov 15 2006, 12:31 PM
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#259
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Bill Pickering -- 914-6 GT aka....Leeloo Group: Members Posts: 2,618 Joined: 10-February 03 From: Campbell, CA Member No.: 287 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Brad Roberts @ Nov 15 2006, 09:39 AM) I beleive the cars would be VERY equal in their current config. The Boxster doesnt spin 7k RPM and the gearing basically SUCKS. B Yeah...the gearing does suck...bad. It's basically a 2 speed box and with such a broad torque band in the motor it's a shame. B, When will you be able to disect a 5 speed box and see if flipping gears is an option? Thanks, Bill P. |
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| Brad Roberts |
Nov 15 2006, 12:39 PM
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#260
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 19,148 Joined: 23-December 02 Member No.: 8 Region Association: None |
I'm trying to get a spare tranny right now. One of the guy's on the Boxster Racing board has one for me in LA. I have one at Jason's house in SJ, but I havent been up with the truck to pick it up.
I should call Gamroth and ask him if he has done it yet. I only use 2-3-4 (mostly 3-4) It forces you to "think" about the gear selection. B |
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