Reccomendations on ways to learn how to drive better, books, videos? Options

[TonyAKAVW]

I had my first autocross experience this weekend and had a lot of fun. Considering my car's setup I should be able to do much better than I did. I'm not saying my car is well setup, but that I've got close to zero skills.

What I'd like to do now is start learning some of the basics of racing, vehicle dynamics, etc. I want to at least have the theory down and get some idea of what I should be doing.

So I'm looking for reccomendations on books or videos or anything that can help me get started with this.


-Tony

[Crazyhippy]

I learned quite a bit from a motorcycle book entitled "a Twist of the Wrist"

Alot of the info transfers to cars.

Beyond that all of my learning has come from instructors, either @ Skip Barber, Derek Daly, or local PCA/POC stuff.

Should have gottne the lotus guy to ride w/ you early in the day, he waould have been helpful.

BJH

[DanT]

Secrets of Solo Racing...By Henry (Hank) Watts.
Great for beginners and folks with experience....Talks about driving techniques, terminology, setups etc.
Here is a link to a copy..

After all of that reading.....seat time, seat time, seat time (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

http://www.amazon.com/Secrets-Solo-Racing-...g/dp/0962057312

[TonyAKAVW]

Should have gottne the lotus guy to ride w/ you early in the day, he waould have been helpful.

Actually he did. He went out with me the first session, but it wasn't a very productive session at all. I ended up getting lost several times, so I was really screwed up. He was telling me to look two corners ahead, so while I was trying to do that, I would lose track of where the course was. I'm sure its good advice, but I was so scatterbrained trying to determine if I should shift or not, when to brake and when not to, where the course was, etc. etc.

Another issue I need to work on is shifting. I think my 2nd gear synchro is shot, I can't downshift into 2nd very fast at all, making 3rd gear a waste of time.



Dan: Thanks for the reccomendation. I'll order that soon.

-Tony

[Toast]

As they alwasy say, the best way to get better is to Practice, Practice, Practice.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/burnout.gif)

[grantsfo]

This one is decent:

http://www.amazon.com/Speed-Secrets-Profes...TF8&s=books

And of course you need to have a clean state of mind when you drive too.

http://www.amazon.com/Zen-Driving-K-T-Berg...TF8&s=books

[Chris Pincetich]

That "Solo Racing" book is highly recommended - I've borrowed it and read a little and now should buy my own copy. The real reason I decided to post is to offer this advice = get on the go-cart track! Find a place that has the high performance carts, NOT the lawn mower engine bumper carts, and spend a couple hours trying early vs late apex turns, throttle steer, braking techniques etc. Not only is this a great accelerated learning excercise, but is is a TON OF FUN! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Leo Imperial]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif) Man I was nervous my first time out. I could hear my heart beating. I have limited ax time, so I don't have advice on how to drive. What I have learned is to show up early and walk the course, pay attention to the other drivers, try to work the difficult corners during work sessions and take your time. Race against yourself and keep it fun. Getting an experienced driver in the car with you is a plus.

Keep at it! I think I am going to take a look at some of the reading material recomended in this thread.

[914forme]

Henry's book, good as is twist of a wrist. But nothing beats seat time. Period, nothing will.

Seat time is the winner, get a lot more of it and you will improve. Then you hit the brick wall, and you need to toss your keys to a National level driver and see how much more your car has that you can't give it. Very humbeling, but enlightening also.

Then seat time again. I am down for the season, but I will be ready for next season, and be out at every test and tune day I can find. Base line the new setup, and make adjustements from there. And seat time, nothing like it.

Walk the course, and walk with a pro, team up. Walk as many times as you can. Ask questions, and learn, don't go for the top guys unless you know them, because they will tell you you can take certain sections flat out, and they might be able to, but it will probally make you butt pucker. BTW, I sit in grid and close my eyes and run the course several times in my head. First time out I run 95% look for the things that I thought would make my butt pucker and if they didn't hit them harder, and remeber the things that did make me go OH ________!!!!!! And figure out a way to improve them. 2nd and 3rd runs and every run after I just want to improve my times.

Look for an SCCA or PCA Region to host auto-x schools and go to them, if you want to be faster, nothing like getting a boot to the head so to speak.

[Crazyhippy]

DROMO 1 Run from Joes T4T BBQ!!!!!!

2 15 minute seasions will wear you out, and there are enough people makeing fun... errr.... critiquing each other driving that it's a useful experiance.

BJH

[TonyAKAVW]

I realize that track time is important, but at this point I really just need to know the basics, like how to determine a good line, when to turn in, when to use the brakes, how to position myself on the track. Other basic things I don't know are how a car reacts when going through turns, just basic physics. Also, how to drive with a car that oversteers/understeers, and how I would even determine which of those my car is doing.

I think once I have a theoretical sense of things, a basic understanding of how suspension really does its job, etc., I'll be able to say 'i should have applied the brake later/earlier, I should make this point the apex of a turn, etc.

Then maybe I can practice this stuff on my PS2. As it is, I can hardly stay on the track when playing GT4. I realize that a video game is probably not a good way to learn driving technique, but at least its a place to try out the basics.

I'm going to try and get to more autocross events and DE events as time permits. I've still got lots of things I want to do with my car, especially in the suspension department (BJ can attest to this). So for the next year or at least the next few months I'll probably be spending a lot of time getting the car suitable for driving.

-Tony

[nocones]

Hank Watts showed up at one of our local events (last year I think...)
He was en route to a track outing and has his 911ish turbo monster on the trailer. He drove an M3 BMW and was very fast and smooth. It was nice getting to chat with him.

Seat time is king, but I whole-heartedly recommend autoX schools.

After finishing the new suspension in my 240Z a few years ago I took it to an AAS event in Sacramento to check out the improvments. The car was a whole different beast than ever before and I felt a little lost trying to figure out what it would do. I ended up about 7/10ths off Chris Cox in his M3. (This is an FP car)
At the end of the day Vic Sias took my car out for a fun run and promptly took another second off my best time. One of those "holy sheet" moments when he came in and told me to "put it in 3rd through the chicane then keep it wide open through the left sweeper."

[Randal]

Secrets of Solo Racing...By Henry (Hank) Watts.
Great for beginners and folks with experience....Talks about driving techniques, terminology, setups etc.
Here is a link to a copy..

After all of that reading.....seat time, seat time, seat time (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

http://www.amazon.com/Secrets-Solo-Racing-...g/dp/0962057312

Not a video or book, but the autoX training school put on by GGR/Zone 7 is a great two day training course.

You will learn a lot.

In the mean time come out to some of our events and we'll ride along and teach you the tricks.

[914forme]

Physics of racing series Yeah its off the Miata.net group, but hey they need all the help they can get. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

Oh, BTW, Miatas are great cars to learn in, can make about anybody look fast. But if you really want to learn, a Kart is the best, butt for physics thing out there.

[J P Stein]

I realize that track time is important, but at this point I really just need to know the basics, like how to determine a good line, when to turn in, when to use the brakes, how to position myself on the track. Other basic things I don't know are how a car reacts when going through turns, just basic physics. Also, how to drive with a car that oversteers/understeers, and how I would even determine which of those my car is doing.

I think once I have a theoretical sense of things, a basic understanding of how suspension really does its job, etc., I'll be able to say 'i should have applied the brake later/earlier, I should make this point the apex of a turn, etc.
-Tony

Starting at ground zero, experienced AXers tell me that the average guy 4-5 years of heavy AX competition to reach to near his potential. It's all about butt time and observation....we're talking about the driving part, not the car. I've only seen one semi-natural. I later found out he had 5-6 years of karting....so much for my "natural".

You can get some basic tips from a book, but applying them takes practice....then some really fast guy comes along and does things differently...then what?
Play stations are just that....but hay, give it a try....it can't hurt much.

The best thing you can do is avail yourself of a good instructor. The first thing he should do is make sure you can navigate the course sucessfully....nobody goes fast without knowing where he is going. Some of your hero instructors forget the blur they went thru at their first 4-6 AXs. After 4-6, things slow down enuff so's you can start looking ahead plus your course memorization skills will have improved.....then you can worry about lines, setting up for a section, braking late, how soon you can roll on the gas, where you can make time and where you just "get thru".

Watch the fast guys. See how they attack a section....you gots the time while working a course, it ain't all chasing cones & schmoozing with your fellow workers....don't waste it. Should you be out there with a hotdog driver, picking his/her brain is allowed (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

These are my opinions and they are mine.

[jhadler]

I'll definitely second the book recommendations...

"Secrets of Solo Racing" - Henry Watts
"Twist of the wrist" - Kieth Code

Twist might be aimed at MC racing, but a whole lot of it applies to 4 wheels as well.

And yes, Seat Time, Seat Time, Seat Time will be worth WAAAAAAY more than book time.

Start looking for Evolution autox schools. It's a traveling show, and there might be one coming to your area next year. Go to as many autox events as you can, ask as many questions as you can, ride with as many people as you can. Really, nothing else will come close to getting you up the learning curve as direct experience.

I will suggest this... Don't mess with the car for at least a full season. People will tell you need to install this thing-a-majig, or run these super tires, or whatever. Once your car is in a decent road-worth state of tune, leave it alone and learn the car. Changing stuff pell-mell is a common practive for people just starting out, and it can really mess your ability to learn what is going on with your driving when the car is always different....

Once you have a season or so behind you, you'll be much better able to tell the difference between understeer that was your fault (overdriving the corner) or the cars fault...

welcome!!!! Now yer hooked!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

-Josh2

[TonyAKAVW]

I have to mess with the car now unfortunately, though I guess winter is proalby not a super active autocrossing season.

First thing is that its getting too hot after a few runs, so I need to continue my cooling work.

Second, the suspension is very sad. Stock front sway bar and torsion bars, KYB shocks, and maybe 140 lb rear springs and no rear sway bar. I'm not going to try for the optimal setup, but I do have an 87 Carrera front suspension to put on and would like a set of Bilstein shocks and stiffer rear springs. I figure that should give me a decent starting point and once I get some experience I'll be able to say "I want an adjustable sway bar" etc.

-Tony

[Brad Roberts]

Tony,

get the car gremlins sorted.. then "chat" with me at the next BBQ. I'll guide you down the starting path with 914's. Be prepared to run 2-3 AutoX's month and be prepared to travel a bit.



B

[Jeroen]

don't expect too much from the books, but if you have no clue on how to drive your lines, they may give you some starting reference
but IMHO your money is better spend on gas/tires/parts/entry fees

get as much seat time and instruction as you can
see if you can catch some shotgun rides with other (faster) drivers

on your first run at an AX, try focusing on the course and not so much on being fast (you can't be fast if you don't know where you're going)

trouble with AX is that you usually get very little driving time
so it's easy to get too eager to set a fast time instead of learning the course

forget about shifting, just put it in second and leave it there (unless you have a really really long straight in the course)
just focus on steering throttle and brakes for now
once you're more comfortable, the shifting (if needed at all) will come naturally

don't mess with your car too much yet (fix the cooling issues though)
in a car with soft suspension it's much easier to learn how the weight transfers left/right and front/back (and both of them together) and what the weight transfer causes handlingwise

just my € 0,02

[TonyAKAVW]

Brad: Thanks! Does the group that runs the autocross at Qualcomm allow non-porsche motored cars? My parents live about 10 minutes from Qualcomm Stadium so I'd definitely have no problem going to those periodically if I can actually run.

Jeroen: Interesting point about the soft suspension/weight transfer. Makes sense.

BJ: I've gone to Dromo1 once, sounds like its time to go back.