Reccomendations on ways to learn how to drive better, books, videos? Options

[914forme]

We are still getting faster

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif) Amen to that!

I still say if reading could make you faster you would see everybody doing it.

I grew up in an auto-racing culture, Dad and his friends all hung out at
Doug Jennings Tiger Auto - watched SCCA Auto-xs and races from the cab of the tow truck. Grew up with XKEs, Bobsies, Lotus', and Porsches at the house. Helped Dad rebuild a 12 cylinder Jag XKE engine when I was 12, rebuilt my first engine when I was 14 - a Jeep F head, 4 cylinder. Point being reading, watching and riding, taught me a little. It wasn't until I was 12 and wanted to help around the farm that I learned to drive. And that was backwards, my mother made me drive every place on hte farm in reverse, using the mirrors. After that I graduated to the tractors, first the small ones, then the 4x4 500 hp monsters. I also learned not to chew gum while you spread (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif) Point being I read all about this stuff, I road with my father as soon as SCCA allowed it. It was not until I did it, that the learning really started to begin.

Pickture of Doug at the last auto-x. In his now very old school Tiger. Nice to see the old crowd still out racing every now and again.

[silversprint]

Another option is some HPDE track days at Street of Willow. You can get two hours of track time for a just over $100 in one day. AutoX just didn't give me the repetition of several laps to try different things on the track and see what works. Streets of Willow is like a big AutoX. Speeds are not very high.

I like speedventures. They have a beginner groups. Passing is limited to the main straight and you can get an instructor for $30 for the day.

www.speedventures.com

Also you can take a driving school. The Alfa Club has a pretty basic, inexpensive, school great for beginners. You will get class, skip pads (wet and dry), and on track experience.

http://www.arosc.org/comp_driving_school.html

Their next school is Feb 3 and 4th. It's usually around $250 for the full 2 days. They are open to all makes and models.

[DanT]

After you do your reading to get the "lingo" and some basic ideas about performance driving and your car's handling characteristics....
AX AX AX AX AX AX AX AX....................................................

I tell all my students to learn as much as they can about their abilities and their car's abilities at the AX and AX schools before they venture to the big track...(15+ years as a TT/DE and AX instructor)

Hitting an orange traffic cone at 50-60mph is a whole lot different than hitting some K wall or tire wall at 100+mph.....OUCH!

Your car...you decide...

[kdfoust]

Hey Tony:

Sorry, dude, but as a noob you're gonna be slow. Unless you're some kind of prodigy in which case we all hate you... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Are those digipix from the OCR Hollywood Park AX or the Orange Fairgrounds? I would have normally been at that event but I was off driving someplace else. There's no instructor in those pix? Did you have one? Having an instructor really helps when you are a newbie. Also, and I always recommend this, you need to go to Evolution Performance Driving. Typically the school is in SoCal a couple of times a year put on by some SCCA types. Phase one and two will completely tweak your driving into something that is competitive if that's what you're after. The books are okay but frankly I find them boring and a bit theoretical. They will give you the vocabulary for communicating with other drivers.

The karting idea is another good idea. You can head up to Oxnard and take the Jim Hall karting school to see if you like it and to get a taste of a pretty challenging vehicle. I believe enough in this that I'm planning to run Karts next season along with a reduced car schedule to help get some of my driving skills wired tighter and to get race tactic experience (elbow to elbow I suppose) before I jump off into POC club racing.

There are a few good things about driving a door handle dragger. First you get very physical lessons in weight transfer -- everything you do effects the car and does it in a way that you can feel it very distinctly. Secondly, driving any car to it's limits is a challenge it doesn't matter if it's a GT3 or stock 356. Once you learn to find the limits in one car you'll be able to do it again in another...and again...and again... Thirdly, it keeps the costs down. With a door handle dragger expensive tires are a complete waste of money as are a lot of other things that sap the driving budget. You get to keep all your hard earned cash and convert it into seat time not wasted go fast parts while you're learning.

CU@the track,
Kevin

[TonyAKAVW]

Sorry, dude, but as a noob you're gonna be slow. Unless you're some kind of prodigy in which case we all hate you...

I didn't expect to be fast, but I want to improve. I had an instructor the firrst session, but it ended up being bad for me, because I got lost on the track more than once because i was looking ahead two turns as he told me to do.

This was at the National Orange Show autocross.

-Tony

[anthony]

IMO you need more than just seat time. You also need some books and classroom instruction so you can understand what you are trying to do out there. I did 5-6 autocrosses and learned very little. It was fun but I was slow.

What really brought me to the next level was doing the GGR's (Golden Gate Region) program.

I first attended the GGR ground school which is a whole day of talking AX, DE, lines, and watching videos. They gave me a copy of Hank Watts' book which I read and which reinforced what they taught in the class. My next step was the Zone 7 2-day autocross school. (Dan T. here was the lead instructor for my group BTW.) The school really cemented it all in, the lightbulb went on and I finally knew what I was trying to achieve out there.

I autocross both my SC and my 914 but I've been taking out the SC more lately. I've won my class several times now in the SC. I usually beat most of the stock Carreras (who should beat me) and I'm usually faster than many of the Boxsters who should also be a lot faster.

I also ask instructors to ride with me at AXes. I'll usually search out Dan or Neil (he was my other instructor at the AX school) for a ride or two. With the coaching my times always dip a little lower even with the extra body in the car.

In the end I'm just doing it for fun. I'm not modifying the cars at all specifically for AX. Both the 914 and the 911 are bone stock with good shocks and sticky street tires. My goal is mostly learning how to drive my cars at the limit with confidence.

[DanT]

Anthony thanks for the kind words for myself and for the GGR programs.

This is what I tell my students all the time...but until they actually go thru the school or at least several AXs with instructors, they never believe that it can make that big of a difference. Yes reading is essential to help a person understand the terminology and to be able to apply it to their car and their driving...that way they can ask for suggestions from folks at the AX and understand what is being said...that, to me is very important for a newbie. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Seat time is great...but if you don't know what you are doing and why, then the seat time is only going to reinforce bad habits that will only take you longer to overcome, besides just doing it right to begin with. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[grantsfo]

Anthony thanks for the kind words for myself and for the GGR programs.

This is what I tell my students all the time...but until they actually go thru the school or at least several AXs with instructors, they never believe that it can make that big of a difference. Yes reading is essential to help a person understand the terminology and to be able to apply it to their car and their driving...that way they can ask for suggestions from folks at the AX and understand what is being said...that, to me is very important for a newbie. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Seat time is great...but if you don't know what you are doing and why, then the seat time is only going to reinforce bad habits that will only take you longer to overcome, besides just doing it right to begin with. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Yes its important to make sure those students of yours leave the wine and cheese at home. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[DanT]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumb3d.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

[Trekkor]

But, I like wine and cheese.

A nice aged dry jack or a cracked black pepper brie. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chowtime.gif)


KT

[anthony]

Yeah, but it was so much fun kicking 914 butt in a big, heavy wine and cheese car! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

With the new motor next year I'll be more likely to autocross the 914 next year.

[PatW]

[quote name='Joe Ricard' date='Nov 2 2006, 09:56 AM' post='807971']
After I figured out I didn't have a clue what I was doing. I got a hot shoe co-driver to teach me what fast looked like.
My 1st ride with him in my car was like "holy shit" his hands were moving in a blur his feet were even faster. He was also saying "holy shit" with this car is faster than he was.


I "heard or read" somewhere that your hands control the car in feet on the track and your feet control the car in inches. Or was it the other way around?.

[914z]

Tony,
There is nothing better than seat time, seat time, seat time!
But, Vic Elfords' book "PORSCHE HIGH PORFORMANCE DRIVING HANDBOOK"is a real good start. I always tell my students to read the book to understand the concepts.

Study the track you are going to be on with somebody you can trust to show you the correct procedures and will stay with you until you get the hang of it.

By the way, On January 26 and 27, 2007, PORSCHE OWNERS CLUB [email=porscheownersclub.org]porscheownersclub.org[/email]will be on the Streets of Willow @ Willow Springs Intenational Raceway. We have a drivers' school on Sat and a full day of racing on Sunday all for the measley price of approx. $200.00 for the weekend. Satruday is all instruction and lead and follow. Sunday they give you an instructor for your (5) run sessions or for as many sessions as you need. You will go home tired, Happy and a lot better driver. I f you make it thru your 1st weekend and are willing to stick with it (3) events latter you could get issued a STS racing license. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

This is a real high quality event and we have turned out some pretty assume talent out of the club.

Anyway, I drive a dead stock 74 914, I currently hold the track record for my class at Streets, I mix it up with 911s, 944s, 996s, BMWs(breakmywallet) Lotus's, Comaros Mustangs, etc. just about anything that comes around. I may not have the power (100 bhp DIN(Deutschland Invented Numbers), but I sure do enjoy the look in their eyes when I'm riding their perverbial butts thru the turns. Yeah, they run away on the straights but they have a hard time running away in the twistys.

As always I'm willing to help I've learned from some of the best.
I have also instructed at the 2005 WCC at Willow.

Please feel free to contact me and we can talk more.
213)251-9530 hm.
213)725-0059 cell(not on when I'm driving, anywhere!)
949)297-1413 wk.(it's ok to call me here)
Steve