Did Porsche have to go water-cooled? Options

[MattR]

but a lot of comments here are either being made casually from (faulty) memory or a lack of real knowledge ... 996 vs. 993 chassis production costs...

Ouch. Be careful whose information you discredit. Porsche has many young employees.

Hey Matt! Sorry, I am not trying to discredit you and read your note with interest and respect given where you work, but I would love to hear more information on how the 996 chassis costs more to produce than the 993 did.

While some of the tooling was paid for long ago on the 993 chassis, nearly 50 percent of the 996 platform (everything from the seats forward, in fact) is shared with the 986. If the 996 per unit actually costs more, then surely Porsche is spending less on platformS when you look back to the 968/928/993 period.

But I'm just not sure the 996 body, when completed, costs more to produce. Look at all of the ways that things go together. The 993 was the first step towards more efficient production after the expensive and labor intensive 911 and 964 platforms, but the 996 took "efficiency" to new heights. Just look at the snap-together center consoles. These things were meant to go together once very quickly on the line and then be taken apart/put back together only so many times...

Again, if you have information that states the 996, less engine, was more expensive to build than the 993 less engine, I am all ears -- and VERY interested!

No offense meant... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

pete

I dont have any numbers, but I do have 2 friends I worked with that informed me. One worked in Weissach on traction control for the street cars and we were talking about how much more money goes in the R&D side of the new cars then the older ones (even the 993). Stuff like advanced ABS, knock control, TC, PASM, etc. add to the costs of the 996 over a 993. This is coming from a guy who designed the stuff... Weissach has grown in size tremendously since '99. They just built all new facilities and have nearly 3000 employees in R&D now... which is the only reason I applied to go work over there.

Another friend I worked with is now in Stuttgart writing his masters thesis on process engineering. He confirmed everything I said. Of course the Germans see nothing wrong with the new honda based watercooled motor because its german engineered, but it costs much much less. The entire car as a package has a similar cost to the 993 though just because its more technologically advanced.

You make a good point on the snap together interiors. The 993 interiors I worked with all seemed really basic and not really interiors, more like pieces of cardboard with leather stapled to it (like our cars). The new interiors are very complex and expensive to manufacturor. They are easy to assemble because you have to assemble half the goddamn interior to do a service.

I hope I'm teaching you something about these cars and not coming off like I'm trying to fight you. I've spent some time trying to understand how the krauts work. More money in R&D and WAY more money in making things cheaper to assemble. So the final product is less expensive to produce, but they invest a lot to make it that way.

[Brett W]

That is a current trend in the automotive industry. Cut production cost and increase efficiency. Ford just went through a major restructuring of their logistics and supply chains to increase efficiency and cut cost. Look at Toyota and Honda. They place a premium on efficiency and their prices and quality reflect that. Compare the quality of American and even German cars to the Japanese. They aren't even on the same level. Everyone is trying to copy the Japanese. Even the Germans for the most part have as many problems as the American manufactures. Their cost are pretty high and it is reflected in their cars.

I know some Porsche gearboxes are made by Aisin instead of Getrag. Not Sure why though.

Anyone remember AdvanTec four valve heads for the aircooled 911? Wonder how well they worked.